1 of 3
1
Leave us face it
Posted: 19 October 2008 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2301
Joined  2007-01-30

From this movies blog.

Leave us face it, Ace is a bummer movie and general audiences have never been crazy about it.

How would Americans hear that use of ‘Leave’ for ‘Let’? A perfectly normal standard alternative, a regional usage, old-fashioned? To the ear of this Englishman it sounds distinctly odd, at least in current speech.

Another example.

Leave Us Go Root for the Dodgers

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 October 2008 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  233
Joined  2007-02-23

When I was a kid, 65 years ago, a few old persons would say “leave us”.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 October 2008 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2781
Joined  2007-01-31

Non-standard, somewhat regional.  I associate it with a blue-collar Brooklyn accent, although I haven’t checked any references to see if that impression is supported by real data.

Sometimes, like other non-standard usages associated with uneducated speech, used deliberately for ironic or comic effect.

[ Edited: 19 October 2008 12:11 PM by Dr. Techie ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 October 2008 12:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  158
Joined  2007-02-14

The usage is uncommon.  I have heard the usage, as Dr. T notes, in old comedy routines such as “The Three Stooges” where the characters are affecting upper class manners (just prior to the scene degenerating into a pie fight).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 October 2008 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
RankRank
Total Posts:  37
Joined  2007-06-27

In my 10th grade grammar class, using “leave” where “let” should have been used was cause to stay after school and write “I can leave the classroom when Miss Barkley decides to let me leave”. She would sit in the back of the room until students had written this sentence out a hundred times. I suspect everyone who ever had her as a teacher cringes when they hear “leave us go”.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 October 2008 11:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  590
Joined  2007-02-22
Dr. Techie - 19 October 2008 12:09 PM

Non-standard, somewhat regional.  I associate it with a blue-collar Brooklyn accent, although I haven’t checked any references to see if that impression is supported by real data.

I,too associate the expression “leave go of that” with a working class accent from an industrial area of the UK, but it could also be Cockney.

lh will be interested to know that this usage is condemned by Oliver Strunk in his book “The Elements of Style”, chapter IV “Words and Expressions Commonly Misused”.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 October 2008 05:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  114
Joined  2008-04-24

Leave it be, all of you.

OED on the verb leave:

3e. To allow, permit, let. colloq. (chiefly U.S.).
Cf. to leave..be s.v. sense 13.

1840 Southern Lit. Messenger VI. 508/1 If you ha’nt a mind to go, you can leave it be, it’s all one to me.

I will now ask for leave of absence from this thread.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 October 2008 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1207
Joined  2007-04-28

Sounds related to archaic “By your leave” ie asking to be let or allowed permission to do something, or asking for a point about something to be conceded in a discussion?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 October 2008 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  811
Joined  2007-06-20
bayard -

I, too associate the expression “leave go of that” with a working class accent from an industrial area of the UK, but it could also be Cockney.

A quick Google Books search shows that one Abraham Howry Espenshade in The Essentials of English Composition and Rhetoric (page 360) was saying in 1913 that ‘Leave go of, as in “Leave go of me,” is a common provincialism for let go’.

Merriam-Webster has some interesting comments to make about British and American differences over “leave go of” - most Leftpond commentators hate it, Rightponders don’t mind so much ....

The purely Cockney expression involving “leave” is “leave it out” (pronounced “aht"), meaning, normally, “kindly desist from the line of argument/behaviour you are pursuing.

[ Edited: 20 October 2008 11:30 AM by Zythophile ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 October 2008 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  114
Joined  2008-04-24

I don’t think it’s purely Cockney - we also hear it in the north.  Also “leave off”, which means the same.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 October 2013 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Rank
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2013-10-05

The phrase “leave us,” in place of the more usual “let us” or “let’s,” may be of Welsh origin.  In Welsh, “let us go” is “gadewch i ni fynd,” which translated literally to English is “leave us go.” As Welsh (and of course, other nationalities) left their homeland and adopted English, they would translate the words and expressions of their native language word-for-word into English.  Other possible “Welshisms” in English include “I’ll learn you not to...” (the Welsh word “dysgu” means both “teach” and “learn"), and the exclamation “Man alive!”, a literal translation of “Dyn byw!”, a Welsh rhyming euphemism for “God!”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 October 2013 11:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1365
Joined  2007-01-29

My English grandmother used to say, “Man alive!” but I haven’t heard it in years.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 October 2013 03:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4607
Joined  2007-01-03

I’d be hesitant to say with any certainty that any of these are from Welsh, although the possibility exists, and an argument that Welsh speakers had an influence, rather than being the single source, seems more likely.

For instance, many languages use the same verb to mean to acquire knowledge and to impart knowledge, and its the same with English. Learn meaning “to teach” dates to Middle English, and it still is used that way in many dialects, although in standard English it has come to be seen as an uneducated usage. It may simply have been a natural development. But if I had to put money on another language influencing the Middle English use of learn, it would be Old Norse. The Old Norse verb kenna means both to come to know, perceive and to teach. The earliest known use of to learn meaning to teach is found in the c. 1200 manuscript known as the Ormulum, a manuscript copied in Northumbria and whose language is heavily influenced by Old Norse. Other early uses are in Cursor Mundi, another Northumbrian work, and the York mystery plays. If Welsh were the origin, we would expect to see the usage in manuscripts from the Welsh-English border region, not Northumbria and the region of the Danelaw. If the Welsh dysgu had an influence on the meaning of to learn, then it likely was a secondary one.

If I had to guess, Man alive! seems the most likely candidate for a Welsh origin. Idiomatic expressions like this are often calqued. But ____ alive! is something of a snowclone. There’s sakes alive, heavens alive, soul alive, etc. So it’s not just that one phrase that we need to explain.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 October 2013 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  233
Joined  2007-02-23

"Man Alive! Two for five!” was a jingle on radio advertising a shoe store. We were bombarded with it for awhile. Perhaps a Midwest US chain store. I remember it on Kansas City radio back in late ‘50s.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 October 2013 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2781
Joined  2007-01-31

There was a BBC current-affairs program called “Man Alive” than ran from 1965 to 1981.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 October 2013 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  806
Joined  2007-03-01

the exclamation “Man alive!”, a literal translation of “Dyn byw!”, a Welsh rhyming euphemism for “God!”

Is there any proof of this - given that “Dyn byw!” could just as easily be a calque on the English phrase?

I ask because I have seen it confidently asserted in print that the word ‘bedgown’, meaning a kind of cotton jacket worn by working-class British women in the 18th and 19th centuries derives from the Welsh word betgwn for the same garment, and that is certainly not true (it is a translation of the French manteau-de-lit).

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 3
1
 
‹‹ FAIL - EPIC FAIL      Common Sense ››