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Panaché
Posted: 10 May 2007 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m reading a murder series by Cara Black.  Her series takes place in Paris and she liberally sprinkles her descriptions with French. In the fourth (I think) of her series ”Murder in the Sentier” I just came across the word “Panaché” in reference to a drink which she describes as a “beer laced with lemonade”.

First of all, in my extensive drinking experience in the US, I will assert that no such drink exists here.  But I’ve had it in England where it is called, I think, a lemonade (that was in Bristol for what it’s worth) and in Hamburg where it is called ”Alsterwasser” and in Berlin where is it called a ”Radler.” (the variants might be lemonade or something like 7-UP as the additive).

so three questions:

1. does such a drink exist in the US (I actually enjoyed it on hot summer days in Europe, but am afraid to order it here.  The response might be something like “WTF")?

2. what is it called in various venues?

3. What relationship, if any, is there to the French word, panache (plume)?

[ Edited: 10 May 2007 08:46 PM by Oecolampadius ]
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Posted: 10 May 2007 08:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Is a shandy strictly beer and ginger ale? Or can it be beer and lemonade? Both, frankly, are something of an abomination since the hops of beer are savory/spicy while sugary drinks are, well, sweet. Something of a contradiction and not my cup of tea. How about a garlic-rasberry-peanut sauce for your banana-mint tri-tip roast beef con mole?

I think in Muenchen the local drink is beer and strawberries. Also not something I’ve gone out of my way to replicate.

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Posted: 10 May 2007 08:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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How about a garlic-raspberry-peanut sauce for your banana-mint tri-tip roast beef con mole?

Now you’re talking ...

Shandy!  Now I’ve heard of that.  Not that I’ve ever tried to drink such a thing.

Also, there maybe a rightpondian - leftpondian issue about what we mean by “lemonade.”

Also, most Germans of my acquaintance find the US 7-Up-like drink ”Mist” to be quite funny.  Mist could mean “bullshit” in German.

[ Edited: 10 May 2007 09:04 PM by Oecolampadius ]
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Posted: 10 May 2007 09:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Beer mixed with lemonade is shandy, at least that’s all I’ve ever heard it called. Very refreshing on a hot day, but ultimately a waste of beer and a waste of lemonade.

Having said that, the OED says that shandy is 1. short for shandygaff (of unknown origin), which is a mixture of beer and ginger-beer; 2. beer mixed with fizzy lemonade.

The amazonians I met in Peru never drank beer straight, and the preferred mixer was generally Pepsi. They would look on me pityingly as I drank my unmixed beer in my uncultured Anglo-Saxon way.

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Posted: 10 May 2007 11:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Ginger beer and lemonade used to be regular alternatives as the non-alcoholic part of a shandy in the UK, and you would ask for a “ginger shandy” or a “lemonade shandy”; but for some reason ginger shandy has fallen right out of favour in recent years, so much so that if you want a ginger shandy you have to explain what you mean, or in some pubs you might end up getting served a lemonade-and-ginger-beer mix.

In France “panaché” is to be had in cans, ready-mixed. I’ve never seen ready-mixed shandy on sale in the UK, but perhaps I don’t frequent the right kind of off-licence or pub.

I agree with the poster that shandy seems an illogical mix of flavours, but a ginger shandy can be quite good; it’s also an excellent treatment for a hangover, containing vitamins, liquid, a sugar boost, a mild hair of the dog, and an anti-emetic (ginger is one of the most effective anti-emetics there is).

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Posted: 11 May 2007 12:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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What irritates me about drinking (lemonade) shandy, which is a useful low-alcohol drink, but the flavours don’t go together too well, is being charged as much for the lemonade as for the beer.

Syntinen,I have seen shandy for sale in cans fairly recently here in the UK, though the manufacturers remove nearly all the alcohol so that it can be sold as a soft drink. ISTR it is lemonade shandy.

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Posted: 11 May 2007 12:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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What relationship, if any, is there to the French word, panache (plume)?

It is related.  Started out meaning decorated with a plume (soldiers helmets, horses etc.) (from 1391)
Then meaning decorated with or having lots of colours or mixed etc. (at least back to 1626), used to describe multi-coloured birds, flowers.

Later applied to drinks or food (mid 1800’s) e.g. Anisette panachée: annisette with absinth (2 pints please :-o)

1959 applied to beer mixed with lemonade

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Posted: 11 May 2007 12:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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A popular Belgian beer is ‘kriek lambiek’ which is made by mixing the beer with cherries during the fermentation process. Kriek is Flemish dialect for cherry, ‘lambiek’ is beer as brewn in the area around Lembeek (cf. Pils).
Personally I don’t like it: beer should taste like beer. (period)

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Posted: 11 May 2007 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Shandy sounds like it should be awful but is in fact delicious and refreshing—at least the beer-and-lemonade kind, which I had on an unusually hot day at the Tower of London.

I was surprised to see panaché attested only from 1959, but on checking I am delighted to find the cite is from one of my favorite authors:

Je boirai bien un autre demi, mais pas un panaché, un vrai demi de vraie bière (QUENEAU, Zazie, 1959, p.67).

Edit: God, I hate lambic.

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Posted: 11 May 2007 06:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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When I worked as a barman in Southampton, UK people would ask for a ‘lager splash’ which was 90% lager and the rest lemonade in the 7 Up sense of lemonade. Shandy is 50/50 and was probably considered a bit of a wusses drink back then in the late ‘70s. A young Scot told me if a man ordered a half-pint of bitter where he came from he was considered a poof. Enlightened times.

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Posted: 11 May 2007 08:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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The French quote from QUENEAU is funny.  A real half of a real beer!  This is Raymond Queneau, right?  Wikipedia‘s article on him has this note about the novel Zazie:

As an author, Queneau came to general attention in France with the publication in 1959 of his novel Zazie dans le métro, and with the film adaptation by Louis Malle in 1960 at the height of the Nouvelle Vague movement in French film. Zazie explores colloquial language as opposed to ‘standard’ written French; a distinction which is perhaps more marked in French than in some other languages. The first word of the book, the alarmingly long “Doukipudonktan” is a phonetic transcription of “D’où qu’ils puent donc tant?” “Why do they stink so much?”.

At Litweb the phrase is translated as “what part of them is it that stinks so much?”

[ Edited: 11 May 2007 08:14 AM by Oecolampadius ]
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Posted: 11 May 2007 11:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Yes, Raymond Queneau.  His Exercices de style is one of the most wonderful books ever written, a few sentences describing two insignificant urban encounters done in a wild variety of styles.  And—good lord!—the whole thing (in French, with screwy accents) appears to be online here. Can that be legal??

A young Scot told me if a man ordered a half-pint of bitter where he came from he was considered a poof.

I had this problem in Ireland.  I was there to study Old Irish and the first day the professor dragged us across the street to a pub to continue the discussion.  I was a twentysomething grad student, used to having a few beers in the evening but not to drinking in the middle of the day (I don’t even think it was noon yet), and when everyone ordered pints of Guinness I gulped and tried ordering a half pint.  It was made clear to me that only ladies ordered half pints.  I quickly learned how to hold my Guinness and still deal with advanced linguistics classes.  Mmm, Guinness… (Best slogan ever: “There’s food in it, there’s drink in it, and there’s a night’s lodging in it.")

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Posted: 11 May 2007 05:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Shandy sounds like it should be awful but is in fact delicious and refreshing—at least the beer-and-lemonade kind, which I had on an unusually hot day at the Tower of London.

I will confess right here right now to being a regular tourist when it comes to the Tower of London. I go there whenever I go to London, which isn’t all that often, and take my daughter there. She proclaims to love it. Perhaps she will learn to love shandies. But I’ve never walked across the Golden Gate Bridge and only ride cable cars when forced to, and then never even halfway to the stars. I hate San Francisco, it reminds me of work.

[ Edited: 12 May 2007 06:48 AM by foolscap ]
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Posted: 12 May 2007 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Why scoff at rightpondians for drinking shandy? Here in Chicago, where I have been pretending to work for the past three weeks, one of my colleagues (so far as i know, an ordinary heterosexual human male) ordered a “Blue Moon”, which i was told is some kind of combination of beer and lemonade. I didn’t try it, so I don’t know what it’s like. I am old-fashioned enough to believe that lemonade is best made from lemons, rather than from petroleum derivatives with added “natural flavors” (you could call a dead rat a “natural flavor”, and I’ve no doubt at all that some corporations are capable of doing so). I agree that a shandy’s a pleasant refreshing drink, if made with decent ingredients. But where does one get ginger beer nowadays? Does it still exist?

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Posted: 12 May 2007 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Blue Moon is a Belgian-style white beer; it has nothing to do with lemonade.

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Posted: 12 May 2007 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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lionello - 12 May 2007 01:06 PM

I am old-fashioned enough to believe that lemonade is best made from lemons, rather than from petroleum derivatives with added “natural flavors” (you could call a dead rat a “natural flavor”, and I’ve no doubt at all that some corporations are capable of doing so). I agree that a shandy’s a pleasant refreshing drink, if made with decent ingredients. But where does one get ginger beer nowadays? Does it still exist?

I agree about the lemons and thought too, for a long time ,that the slightly unpleasant tang in lemonade shandy was due to the cheap lemonade the pubs served.  Recently, however, I tried making shandy with real lemonade made from lemons and sugar (no vile sweeteners) and beer and it didn’t taste that much different, to me, anyway.  Oh well.  Over here in Rightpondia you can buy ginger beer in two-litre bottles from supermarkets, but it’s not as good as the stuff you make yourself.

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