1 of 2
1
HD: 1908 Words
Posted: 30 January 2012 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4478
Joined  2007-01-03

Another year, another list

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1228
Joined  2007-03-21

The entry on Melba was fascinating but I couldn’t suss out the reasons for Dame Melba giving her name to these items. A quick trip to Wikipedia (FWIW) connects Escoffier to this use of her stagename by saying that he (one of her fans) created these desserts in her honor for some reason (various reasons and dates given). In any case, it seems by my reading that she didn’t so much give her name to these desserts as it was given by Escoffier to honor her.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2745
Joined  2007-01-31

This thread’s title says 1908, but the HD entry is words of 1907.

Edit:  It would be interesting to know if the 1907 use of moonscape ("Here was one of those moon-scapes which the poet should depict in verse.") carried the “barren and desolate” sense of today, or was just romantic and fanciful imagery (like fairyland).

Afterthought: or was just a nonce term for a landscape bathed in moonlight.

[ Edited: 30 January 2012 09:13 AM by Dr. Techie ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  634
Joined  2011-04-10

Here is an example of “insightful” in a book review published in 1885.  From The American, Vol. X, No. 248, May 9, 1885, page 346:

books?id=0h8gAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA346&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0xgnkBHl0S4ezlEp-x9wFECuP0rA&ci=509,936,412,95&edge=0

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4478
Joined  2007-01-03

This thread’s title says 1908, but the HD entry is words of 1907.

Yeah, I start on the next year while still editing the last. This time I got a bit confuzed.

In any case, it seems by my reading that she didn’t so much give her name to these desserts as it was given by Escoffier to honor her.

Naming dishes after celebrities is a rather common practice. I don’t know if it started with Melba, or if it goes back further.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  634
Joined  2011-04-10

In Yorkshire by the sea, by George Radford, 1891, on page 80, “moonscape” is used in the “landscape illuminated by the light of the moon” sense:

books?id=Z_LfAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA80&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0xkA-iawbx4UgwkURnCSTSlLj0RA&ci=232,1009,558,93&edge=0

In Cassell’s Family Magazine, Illustrated, 1887, on page 123 is an illustration. Appearing within the caption is “moonscape.” The illustration is intended to be a depiction of the moon’s surface. It certainly looks forbidding. Note the charming shooting stars:

books?id=VaLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA123&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U07s6NV3V7l01S0ld8NsvD08UQFuA&ci=95,124,766,504&edge=0

[ Edited: 30 January 2012 10:53 AM by sobiest ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2232
Joined  2007-01-30

hot link, n. The word link has been used to denote one of chain of sausages since the fifteenth century ....,.,.

Missing article before chain.

What was the term for numerology before that word was coined? I’m sure there was one (the Greeks had a term for every sort of divination under the sun), I just can’t think of it.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 January 2012 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  634
Joined  2011-04-10
aldiboronti - 30 January 2012 10:52 AM

What was the term for numerology before that word was coined? I’m sure there was one (the Greeks had a term for every sort of divination under the sun), I just can’t think of it.

Gematria?

GEMATRIA (from Gr. γεωμετρία),… It consists of explaining a word or group of words according to the numerical value of the letters, or of substituting other letters of the alphabet for them in accordance with a set system....

-- http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0007_0_07165.html

Etymonline suggests (in part):

gematria
1680s, from Heb. gematriya, from Gk. geometria (see geometry)....

.

edited to add a link:

Gematria, or arithmology, is the belief that various writings, especially religious scriptures, contain secret messages that can be discovered through translating various writings into numbers.  Gematria is a system in which hidden meanings are revealed within words…

-- http://mathematics.gulfcoast.edu/mathprojects/gematria.htm

[ Edited: 30 January 2012 11:11 AM by sobiest ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2012 04:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2232
Joined  2007-01-30

That’s the term I was thinking of. Thanks, sobiest.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2012 05:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2232
Joined  2007-01-30
Dr. Techie - 30 January 2012 09:05 AM

This thread’s title says 1908, but the HD entry is words of 1907.

Edit:  It would be interesting to know if the 1907 use of moonscape ("Here was one of those moon-scapes which the poet should depict in verse.") carried the “barren and desolate” sense of today, or was just romantic and fanciful imagery (like fairyland).

Afterthought: or was just a nonce term for a landscape bathed in moonlight.

Google Book Search turns up this from a book published in 1891, Yorkshire by the Sea by George Radford Symington, where the sense seems to be a landscape bathed in moonlight.

A friend, Mr. Randolph Lee, who has now wandered far from his native Scarborough, writes to me: — “The coast landscape in the morning sunlight, “ the moonscape on a fine September night, transfigured, on the waters beneath, ..

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2012 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  634
Joined  2011-04-10

Last year I read parts of an unpublished writing by a friend of mine with an eye to critique and discuss it. One of the characters was named intentionally for humorous effect with a phonetic rendering close to “saltine cracker”. I don’t recall the exact spelling but it was far enough away that it could fall under the umbrella of plausible deniability, at least for me.

I became curious to see how close “saltine” or its variants would come to being an actual historical name. I looked.

I didn’t get too far along before giving up on finding a close real name, but along the way I tried to see if I could find an early use of “saltine” as in “saltine cracker”. I saw 1907 cited as the first-use date (etymonline, I think), but I looked for an earlier use and found one in a cookbook. I think it was this one:

Catering For Two by Alice Louise James, 1898.

On page 150, in a recipe for “breaded turnips” there is an instance of “saltine”, in the phrase, “saltine cracker dust”:

books?id=-E3TAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA150&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U1YOq0tGFejd3_3Zb3DtsvAMwqtTA&ci=245,112,636,175&edge=0

[ Edited: 31 January 2012 11:58 AM by sobiest ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2012 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  336
Joined  2012-01-10

At the risk of quibbling, it looks like “saltine” is an adjective when it appears in the phrase “saltine cracker”.  etymology online dates the noun to 1907, but does not comment on an adjectival form.  I don’t have the actual oed, but Dave’s cite to saltine (also to 1907, of course) is to the noun form.  Interestingly (or perhaps not) neither dictionary.com nor wordnik give an adjectival definition of saltine.  Wordnik does have some recent uses of “saltine cracker”, so the phrase is still used today.

And, to quibble with my earlier quibble, it’s possible that saltine is a noun in the phrase “saltine cracker”, and the phrase is willfully redundant.  Many figures of speech are.  TANGENT alert: there is a great scene in the hbo series deadwood, in which a saloon owner insists on an ad using the phrase “free gratis”, and the newspaper editor objects, since gratis means free and thus the phrase is redundant.  But the saloon owner, understanding how the people of deadwood think, replies that people want to hear that something is “free gratis,” so neither free nor gratis alone will do.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2012 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1888
Joined  2007-02-19

The surname “Salteena” occurs in Daisy Ashford’s book The Young Visiters, written about 100 years ago. The full title of the book is The Young Visiters, or Mr. Salteena’s Plan. Mr. Salteena is the central character.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2012 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2894
Joined  2007-02-26

Oecol, when Dave says Melba gave her name to those items, he simply means they were named after her. The phrase does not imply that she literally gave them that name.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1888
Joined  2007-02-19

Naming dishes after celebrities is a rather common practice. I don’t know if it started with Melba, or if it goes back further.

It goes back a lot further. Many famous 19th century persons had dishes named in their honour, often during their lifetimes: Chateaubriand, Murat, Rossini, Bismarck. Duxelles (a mushroom dish) is supposed to have been invented by the 17th century chef François Pierre de la Varenne, and named after his employer, the Marquis d’Uxelles.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2012 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2232
Joined  2007-01-30

And the Earl of Sandwich, of course (although I note OED adds a qualifying said to be to the etymology). Interesting to see that Gibbon in his Journal is the earliest cite for the term.

1762 Gibbon Jrnl. 24 Nov. (1929) 185, I dined at the Cocoa Tree.‥ That respectable body‥affords every evening a sight truly English. Twenty or thirty‥of the first men in the kingdom,‥supping at little tables‥upon a bit of cold meat, or a Sandwich.

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1
 
‹‹ HD: Etymology Man      More on literally ››