Pasty controversy in McDonald’s’s guide
Posted: 09 September 2012 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]
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“Filler” in the Gruaniad.
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It is indeed a meat (and vegetable) pie, the Welsh word for pie is Pastai, Cornish and Welsh languages are very closely related (although Cornish is closer to Breton in its reinvented form). So a pasty is a pie, although the pasty in the picture adjoining this article isn’t an EU approved Cornish pasty since it is crimped from the top whereas the requirement is that it should be crimped from the side.

All the words mean pie, and pie comes from the Latin so shares a root with pasta.

In Upper Michigan (USA) the pasty is a popular food - and they are excellent. The real thing. They have to explain to other Americans that a pasty is not something to stick on strippers but a pastry dish. The people of Upper Michigan call themselves Yoopers (U-ppers) and they are connected to the rest of Michigan by a bridge - Mackinac Bridge, pronounced Mackinaw, and they call the rest of the Michiganites Trolls - they live below the bridge. So they have a sense of humour too - and great pasties. MacDonalds staff clearly have not been there. Yet it was the best fast food in the whole US.

I don’t think ‘meat pie’ is a bad description, although they could have been more precise. ‘Pastie’ sounds like ‘pastry’ to American ears, so the important concept to get across is that it has meat in it. I just don’t understand why they included ‘grub’. That is definitely a word used in America. My grandfather always took a ‘grub box’ along on camping trips. I was going to say that ‘gobsmacked’ is used in America as well, but I can’t actually remember hearing anyone use it. Maybe I learned it reading British novels or watching BBC America?

I’m no lover of McD and never eat their fare,
but they were translating for americans, not the cornish.
Just look it up in an american dictionary for f’s sake:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pasty

pas·ty noun \ˈpas-tē\
1: a meat pie

Cheerio, me old chinas.

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Posted: 10 September 2012 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Talk about a tempest in a teapot.  “Meat pie” is a perfectly reasonable brief description.

I was going to say that ‘gobsmacked’ is used in America as well, but I can’t actually remember hearing anyone use it. Maybe I learned it reading British novels or watching BBC America?

It always amazes me how little awareness people have of these things.  How could anyone think “gobsmacked” was American?

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Posted: 10 September 2012 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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‘Pastie’ sounds like ‘pastry’ to American ears,

Uh… no it doesn’t.

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Posted: 10 September 2012 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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It’s like calling a Big Mac a beef sandwich.

This is the beginning of the Wikipedia entry on hamburger:

A hamburger (also called a hamburger sandwich, burger or hamburg) is a sandwich consisting of a cooked patty of ground meat usually placed inside a sliced bread roll.

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Posted: 10 September 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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languagehat - 10 September 2012 05:54 AM

Talk about a tempest in a teapot.  “Meat pie” is a perfectly reasonable brief description.

Well - except that a pasty contains root vegetables (potato, swede, turnip, eg), as well as meat. And a pie is cooked in a dish, whereas a pasty is cooked on a tray. “Meat and vegetable turnover” would be a technically closer description.

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Posted: 10 September 2012 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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True, but I didn’t say it was perfect, just reasonable.  They’re complaining about it as if it were being called a “Cornish turd” or something.

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Posted: 10 September 2012 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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If you think Macdonald’s is the right place to go for a useful list of definitions of English words, you’ve no right to expect much, and you deserve what you get. There are, after all, other sources, if you’re at all finicky.

The same applies to eating at Macdonald’s. I’ve been in places (I remember one particular “city”, in the mountains in Arizona) where Macdonald’s was the gourmet restaurant, and I was grateful for what they dished up. That silly person who, commenting on the Guardian article, compares a Big Mac to a turd, has no conception at all of what really bad food is like. He/she should try the so-called “meat pies” at one particular tourist eatery in Gretna Green (I had indigestion for three days after).

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Posted: 10 September 2012 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Yes, I used to be all superior about Macdonald’s until I found myself stuck in an upstate hellhole (Albany, NY, to be precise) where all the other restaurants had closed at some ridiculous hour like seven o’clock.  But there was Mickey D’s, proudly serving their mediocre little meat patties and their really quite good coffee, and I was pathetically grateful.

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Posted: 10 September 2012 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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All this talk of pasties is making me hungry for them, and it’s many a long kilo to the Upper Peninsula (and many more to Cornwall).

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Posted: 10 September 2012 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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When my daughter was little I would never take her to McDonalds, no matter how much she begged.  Her mother would hit the drive-thru sometimes, but we never ate there as a family.  My hypothesis was that McDonalds was bad for kids because meal time got turned into play time there.  When you go to a nice restaurant you can tell McDonalds kids by the fact that they’re running around all over the place instead of staying seated at their table.

However, I will confess that when I was a kid, going to McDonalds was a real treat (we ate in the car back then), and I still love to get a Filet-O-Fish once in a while.  There is nothing else quite like it.

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Posted: 11 September 2012 12:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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And a pie is cooked in a dish, whereas a pasty is cooked on a tray.

Not necessarily, by any means. The traditional English raised pie (e.g. the pork pie and Melton Mowbray pie) is built free-standing, sometimes formed around a mould, and baked on a sheet.

Let’s face it, pie is a whole genus. It includes dishes that are covered with puff, shortcrust, hot-water, cold-water, sweet, or filo pastry; that are baked in dishes or on sheets; that have pastry completely enclosing the filling or just acting as a lid; that contain just about any filling. (I’d say that shepherd’s, cottage and fish pies, where mashed potato stands in for the pastry, are pies only by courtesy; and let’s not even start on sea-pie.) Surely it’s perfectly true to say that the pasty is a type of pie (as is the apple turnover, I suppose). It’s certainly less wacky than to call the pizza a pie, as I gather Leftpondians sometimes do, or at any rate used to do.

Edited to add:

It’s true that if you wanted someone to get you a Cornish pasty, you wouldn’t ask them for a ‘pie’. But nor would you ask for ‘bread’ if what you wanted was pumpernickel or pitta; and surely nobody would dispute that pumpernickel and pitta are types of bread.

[ Edited: 11 September 2012 12:48 AM by Syntinen Laulu ]
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Posted: 11 September 2012 02:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I think Maccas could have been more specific.

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Posted: 11 September 2012 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Syntinen Laulu - 11 September 2012 12:21 AM

And a pie is cooked in a dish, whereas a pasty is cooked on a tray.

Not necessarily, by any means. The traditional English raised pie (e.g. the pork pie and Melton Mowbray pie) is built free-standing, sometimes formed around a mould, and baked on a sheet.

Let’s face it, pie is a whole genus. It includes dishes that are covered with puff, shortcrust, hot-water, cold-water, sweet, or filo pastry; that are baked in dishes or on sheets; that have pastry completely enclosing the filling or just acting as a lid; that contain just about any filling. (I’d say that shepherd’s, cottage and fish pies, where mashed potato stands in for the pastry, are pies only by courtesy; and let’s not even start on sea-pie.) Surely it’s perfectly true to say that the pasty is a type of pie (as is the apple turnover, I suppose). It’s certainly less wacky than to call the pizza a pie, as I gather Leftpondians sometimes do, or at any rate used to do.

It’s true that if you wanted someone to get you a Cornish pasty, you wouldn’t ask them for a ‘pie’. But nor would you ask for ‘bread’ if what you wanted was pumpernickel or pitta; and surely nobody would dispute that pumpernickel and pitta are types of bread.

All excellent points. But where would you put the pasty’s South Midlands cousin, the Bedfordshire Clanger? It’s like a pasty (except for the sweet end), it also fulfils the same function of being a worker’s lunchtime meal, but it’s surely no pie ...

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Posted: 11 September 2012 11:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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But where would you put the pasty’s South Midlands cousin, the Bedfordshire Clanger?

What a delightful name....devotees should be careful never to drop one.

;-)

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