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The very first words
Posted: 01 January 2013 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hello. My pen name is Raven Alb J. and as you know I am new to this site. Originally I am from Romania and please forgive some of the misspellings and the poor grammar, because English is not my native language and I have never been to any English school. I joined this site, because the unusual gift I have for words and their origins.
I don’t know where to start with this, because regardless of my starting point it will sound insane. Please assume that you are listening to a fairy tale and accept it for as long as you can. I do not expect anyone to believe me, but everyone should think and conclude everything by themselves. Questions and opinions are very welcome.
Romanian language is one of the Romance languages and it is supposed to have evolved out of Latin. That is true up to the point of “evolved from Latin”. That part is not true. Here is some very basic proof. The word SUN is SOL in Latin SOARE in Romanian and SURYA in Sanskrit. The word FOOD is CIBUS in Latin HR-ANA in Romanian and ANA in Sanskrit. The third word HUNDRED is CENTO in Latin SUTA in Romanian and SUTA in Sanskrit. Notice how much closer the Romanian words are to Sanskrit than Latin. These are very basic words in any language. There are more, but this is enough to get the attention.
Now the question comes automatically; if Romanian language didn’t evolve from Latin, where the heck did it come from? Now comes the real insane thing. Romanian is the closest to the original European language than any other. Please believe me when I say that I am the only person ever, to look at the composition of the Romanian language. One can climb the linguistic scale in Romanian all the way to the first words. Almost all the words in Romanian are self explanatory.
I will jump to a couple of very unusual customs the Romanians have and then I return to words.  The Romanian tribes are named according to the rivers they live by. People living on the river ARGES are ARGESENI. Those living on river MURES are MURESANI. And those on OLT are OLTENI. No other nation around Romania or in Europe has this custom. But the INDIANS had their name derived from INDUS and EGYPTIANS from EGYPTUS, which was the vernacular name of the Nile. The later name of the river came from a certain king named NILUS.
The other unique custom is to wear a certain nick-knack called MARTISOR meaning “little MARTIE/MARS” the whole month of March. According to Herodotus the god of the Skits was MARTIE “Mars”. The same Herodotus gives the names of the main rivers of the Skits. Three of them PORATA, ORGESIS and MARIS still have the same names today. They are PRUT, ARGES, and MURES. Herodotus wrote those names about 2500 years ago and he wrote them in Greek and they still match to almost perfection. How is that possible if all sort of barbarians crossed back and forth for centuries over that land. Well, here is another shocking revelation. Those Barbarians were all down to the last one Romanian ancestors under different names. I have 100% documentation on this statement. That documentation comes from antiquity writers, from etymology and from the names of some cities and similar sources. For example HUN-EDOARA is a city in Romania and it means “city of the Huns”. Part of the Huns were named CIMMERI/SIMMERI and others SIBIRI and correspondently the cities of SIMERIA and SIBIU are in the same area as Hunedoara. Than it is also a fact that the God of the Huns was Mars [Romanian Martie]. Huns were called Skits by Priscus the Byzantine writer who was at Attila’s court. The name Attila was not uncommon in antiquity, because I encountered Roman senators in antiquity writings named Attilius and the king of Pergamum [Thracian kingdom] who offered a good reward for a replacement of papyrus was named Attalus. It was in PERGAMUM that the PERGAMENT [English PARCHMENT] was invented 150 years before the paper appeared in China. Herodotus also gave some words of the Skits. Here are some:
SAGARIS fighting axe, called SECURE in Romanian.
OIER meaning “man”. OIER means “sheep owner” in Romanian.
PATA meant “crime”. PATA is stain [on ones character]
The famous word AMAZON believed to be Greek, is explained by the Romanian language. The word A-MA-ZONA [female] is composed of three Romanian words A MEA ZINA and it means “my goddess”.
Now let’s go to that insane claim of mine that in the Romanian language the very first words can be traced.
In Romanian the words RASARE “sun rise” and RAPUNE “sun dawn” Are very revealing. RA-SARE literally means “RA is jumping”. RA-PUNE means “RA down” or “RA dead”. In modern Romanian the word “sun down” is APUNE, because the RA has dropped for easier pronunciation, but in some old dialect the word is still pronounced RAPUNE. RAPUNE also means “to kill” and RAPOSAT means “dead”. I am sure that every member in this site knows that RA or RE was the Egyptian “sun god”. The words RA-SARE and RA-PUNE one meaning RA is jumping and the other RA is dying/going dawn, if coupled with the Romanian word for “sun” SO-A-RE which can be very clearly interpreted SUS-E RE meaning “RE is up” reveals that RA was the “sun god” of the Europeans as well.
But there is more proof.
NORI means “clouds” and NORAT “cloudy”. If the words NO-RI and NO-RA-T are split is simply mean that there is NO RI or NO RA. In other words RA cannot be seen, because it is cloudy. But that is not all. ZORI means “dawn”. In Romanian ZEU is “god” and the word ZO-RI means “god RI”.
The word AMURG which was RA-MURG or RA-MERGE means “dawn” as well, but it refers to the first light, before seeing the sun. The English E-MERGE can be easily seen in this A-MURG or A-MERGE and the German MORGEN or the English MORNING origin is revealed.
This is only the beginning and if the members of this association do not mind the continuation, we can have the greatest linguistic discovery ever.

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Posted: 01 January 2013 09:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Welcome to the forum, raven alb j.

Notice how much closer the Romanian words are to Sanskrit than Latin. These are very basic words in any language. There are more, but this is enough to get the attention

Most Romanian words derive from Latin.

There are some borrowings from other languages, mostly from Slavic languages but also from Greek and Turkish and others.

Although the vocabulary of the Romanian language is overwhelmingly Latinate, it should be noted that even stronger evidence for its descent from Latin is its grammar.

Romanian is the closest to the original European language than any other.

Could you please provide a reference supporting this claim?

Please believe me when I say that I am the only person ever, to look at the composition of the Romanian language.

Despite your pleas, I will not believe this.

I will jump to a couple of very unusual customs the Romanians have and then I return to words.  The Romanian tribes are named according to the rivers they live by. People living on the river ARGES are ARGESENI. Those living on river MURES are MURESANI. And those on OLT are OLTENI. No other nation around Romania or in Europe has this custom. But the INDIANS had their name derived from INDUS and EGYPTIANS from EGYPTUS, which was the vernacular name of the Nile. The later name of the river came from a certain king named NILUS.

Indus ultimately derives from a word meaning “river”, rather than the name of a particular river. These comparisons are interesting but do not relate to the issue of the origin of the Romanian language.

Past that point, your piece goes into a bit of a decline. You have found several little threads but together they don’t add up to significant evidence. You could probably do similar tricks for any language family.

The word AMURG which was RA-MURG or RA-MERGE means “dawn” as well, but it refers to the first light, before seeing the sun. The English E-MERGE can be easily seen in this A-MURG or A-MERGE and the German MORGEN or the English MORNING origin is revealed.

The descent of the English “emerge” from the Latin “mergere” meaning “to sink” is well documented and uncontroversial.

I don’t think that, if you sat down and looked at all the evidence neutrally, you would arrive at a conclusion other than that Romanian is descended from Latin.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 06:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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The development of the Romance languages isn’t my forte, so I can’t point out the individual arguments and blocks of evidence; I’m more knowledgeable on the Germanic languages. But I will ponit out that, unlike the shift from Proto-Indo-European, the development from Latin to Romanian and the other Romance languages is within historical memory and well documented in writing. The develoment out of Latin is indisputable. We have the written record to prove it.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 07:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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There’s no point trying to refute crackpots, linguistic or otherwise.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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True true, LH, but you have to admire someone who joins up in April and waits till the first day of the next year to ‘splurge’ the dirt :-) Ho ho ho!

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Posted: 02 January 2013 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Please believe me when I say that I am the only person ever, to look at the composition of the Romanian language.

How could you, or anyone, possibly believe this?

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Posted: 02 January 2013 06:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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happydog - 02 January 2013 05:32 PM

Please believe me when I say that I am the only person ever, to look at the composition of the Romanian language.

How could you, or anyone, possibly believe this?

Since this is this poster’s first post and English is not his or her first language, I’m willing to believe that this statement should not be read as bluntly as we Englishers read it.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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The word SUN is SOL in Latin SOARE in Romanian and SURYA in Sanskrit. The word FOOD is CIBUS in Latin HR-ANA in Romanian and ANA in Sanskrit. The third word HUNDRED is CENTO in Latin SUTA in Romanian and SUTA in Sanskrit. Notice how much closer the Romanian words are to Sanskrit than Latin. These are very basic words in any language.

There’s a fairly interesting discussion on the Wikipedia talk page for the Centum-satem isogloss article. The idea of an earlier “substratum” may solve some of the linguistic problems which raven alb j. identifies.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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OP Tipping - 01 January 2013 09:40 PM

Welcome to the forum, raven alb j.

Notice how much closer the Romanian words are to Sanskrit than Latin. These are very basic words in any language. There are more, but this is enough to get the attention

Most Romanian words derive from Latin.

There are some borrowings from other languages, mostly from Slavic languages but also from Greek and Turkish and others.

Although the vocabulary of the Romanian language is overwhelmingly Latinate, it should be noted that even stronger evidence for its descent from Latin is its grammar.

Romanian is the closest to the original European language than any other.

Could you please provide a reference supporting this claim?

Please believe me when I say that I am the only person ever, to look at the composition of the Romanian language.

Despite your pleas, I will not believe this.

I will jump to a couple of very unusual customs the Romanians have and then I return to words.  The Romanian tribes are named according to the rivers they live by. People living on the river ARGES are ARGESENI. Those living on river MURES are MURESANI. And those on OLT are OLTENI. No other nation around Romania or in Europe has this custom. But the INDIANS had their name derived from INDUS and EGYPTIANS from EGYPTUS, which was the vernacular name of the Nile. The later name of the river came from a certain king named NILUS.

Indus ultimately derives from a word meaning “river”, rather than the name of a particular river. These comparisons are interesting but do not relate to the issue of the origin of the Romanian language.

Past that point, your piece goes into a bit of a decline. You have found several little threads but together they don’t add up to significant evidence. You could probably do similar tricks for any language family.

The word AMURG which was RA-MURG or RA-MERGE means “dawn” as well, but it refers to the first light, before seeing the sun. The English E-MERGE can be easily seen in this A-MURG or A-MERGE and the German MORGEN or the English MORNING origin is revealed.

The descent of the English “emerge” from the Latin “mergere” meaning “to sink” is well documented and uncontroversial.

I don’t think that, if you sat down and looked at all the evidence neutrally, you would arrive at a conclusion other than that Romanian is descended from Latin.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 08:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Iron Pyrite - 02 January 2013 08:13 PM

The word SUN is SOL in Latin SOARE in Romanian and SURYA in Sanskrit. The word FOOD is CIBUS in Latin HR-ANA in Romanian and ANA in Sanskrit. The third word HUNDRED is CENTO in Latin SUTA in Romanian and SUTA in Sanskrit. Notice how much closer the Romanian words are to Sanskrit than Latin. These are very basic words in any language.

There’s a fairly interesting discussion on the Wikipedia talk page for the Centum-satem isogloss article. The idea of an earlier “substratum” may solve some of the linguistic problems which raven alb j. identifies.

I couldn’t make sense of the link. It just took me to a generic talk page.

Maybe this would be a better place to start?

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Posted: 02 January 2013 08:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Dave Wilton - 02 January 2013 06:34 AM

The development of the Romance languages isn’t my forte, so I can’t point out the individual arguments and blocks of evidence; I’m more knowledgeable on the Germanic languages. But I will ponit out that, unlike the shift from Proto-Indo-European, the development from Latin to Romanian and the other Romance languages is within historical memory and well documented in writing. The develoment out of Latin is indisputable. We have the written record to prove it.

Thank you for acting so logical and at least give me a chance. I do understand perfectly what one goes thru when new unbelievable things are presented. Aristarchus of Samos was never believed when the heliocentric understanding came about, nor was Copernicus accepted for two centuries after elevating the same heliocentric concept to logical levels. I couldn’t believe myself the things rolling like an avalanche at me when I grabbed the tread. 
I wrote a book on history, ice ages and linguistics titled “Why and How the Ice Age Ended and the True History of the White Race”. The book is based on studying just about all the antiquity writers from Herodotus to Ana Commnena. But my strongest points in that book are the lexicons which prove thru words connections, everything I claim historically. I recommend you read that book, because if not, it will happen to you exactly what happened to me with the internet. I didn’t think that I needed it and by the time I woke up, I had a lot to catch up to do and I-m very far behind yet. I realize that my statement sounds very arrogant and I could be more modest and run thru the streets necked and yell “eureka, eureka” but they will they will lock me up for sure.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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languagehat - 02 January 2013 07:29 AM

There’s no point trying to refute crackpots, linguistic or otherwise.

I assume that the endearing epithet you gave me in that very concentrated phrase is a test to see if I am really a “crackpot”. A crackpot would not resist answering genuinely to such challenge and has to respond on the same manner. Regardless of your intention here is my response. 
There are two parts that will be subconsciously or consciously analyzed by an intelligent person on the text I presented.
One is the lexicons which no matter how crazy in claim, have logical connection between words and the most important fact is that hardly anyone in the world came up with such presentation, meaning that the writer is very original. He seems to be well read in important subjects related to his text and while the things he claims sound insane, he already warned about this interpretation.  There are question marks, but this is the only presentation seen yet on this writer. Does he deserve further attention?
The other part of the text shows an extremely unusual fact. He wrote the article in English, which is not his native language and never went for a single hour to any English school. Any above average intellect knows that is almost impossible for 99.009 people to undertake such enterprise, because the English language has such difference between the written language and pronunciation. What “crackpot” in the world can have such achievement? 
On top of that I recommend you go to “Nelo glass best horse” on you tube and see what I do for a living. I learned to do that all by myself, as the rest of the things I learned in life and if you think that you can learn how to make such things, even with others teaching you, please state that in your next comment and see if anyone that have seen my work will believe you for a second.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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raven alb j. - 02 January 2013 08:36 PM

OP Tipping - 01 January 2013 09:40 PM
Welcome to the forum, raven alb j.

Notice how much closer the Romanian words are to Sanskrit than Latin. These are very basic words in any language. There are more, but this is enough to get the attention

Most Romanian words derive from Latin.

There are some borrowings from other languages, mostly from Slavic languages but also from Greek and Turkish and others.

Although the vocabulary of the Romanian language is overwhelmingly Latinate, it should be noted that even stronger evidence for its descent from Latin is its grammar.

Romanian is the closest to the original European language than any other.

Could you please provide a reference supporting this claim?

Please believe me when I say that I am the only person ever, to look at the composition of the Romanian language.

Despite your pleas, I will not believe this.Thank you for your comments I really appreciate them and I-m not saying that just to be polite. It is genuine.
You have 5 separate comments and I will number them and put them in one text.
No 1 I-m sure that you learned your statement from others, while I learned mine by comparing Romanian and Latin which I had to learn in order to be able to prove it. Many of my books are LOEB classic books which have the original language on the left page and the English on the right. You doubt that I am the only person ever to tear Romanian language apart and look at its skeleton and you will doubt when I tell you that I read the pages in Latin and understand it. But here is my statement; Romanian grammar is very different than Latin. The only Romanian tribe that speak with a Latin grammar are Oltenii and those people are the only ones who are not original from that land, but came from the south. They have darker skin black hair and rarely blue eyes, the last being a common characteristic of the Romanian people.
Here is a grammar comparison;
VENI, VIDI, VICI Oltenii say VENI, VAZUI, VINSAI
VENI, VIDI, VICI Transylvanians say VENITAM, VAZUTAM, INVINSAM
VENI, VIDI, VICI Rest of Romanians AM VENIT, AM VAZUT, AM INVINS
Almost all the words in Romanian can be traced to their roots and the Slavic, Turkish and the rest have their words from Romanian not the other way around. Anatolia was not Turkish territory, but Thracian [Romanian ancestors]. I know what ANATOLIA means in Greek, but look what it means in Romanian; ANALTIA means “highland” and if you know anything about Anatolia then you understand the meaning. 
No2 yes I can. The book “Why and How the Ice Age Ended and the True History of the White Race” which took me 15 years to write, proves my claim beyond any doubt. 
No 3. This is proven on the same book.
No 4. I learned to deep extent 6 languages. Romanian, Italian, German, Spanish, English and Latin. I can’t do that “trick” in any language I know other than Romanian. Will you please do it in any language you know and show it to us? I will even tell you in advance the result. You will never be able to do this trick little as it is in any language.
As more proof on my claims, listen to this; I didn’t even scratch the surface of what I have, I only wiped it clean to show that something is underneath.  My book is 500 pages, but I have written 5000. It took me 2 years to concentrate those pages 10 to one, because nobody will read a 5000 pages book. From what I see so far, nobody wants to read the book as it is. Everybody knows better than me what is in that book without reading it and they call me “arrogant”.
No 5. This is easy to prove you wrong. The word MERGE in Romanian means “walk” and the exact same meaning “it has in English”. This word matches Romanian and English only. How did that happened? If you want to see more words which match Romanian and English only, please let me know. 

I will jump to a couple of very unusual customs the Romanians have and then I return to words.  The Romanian tribes are named according to the rivers they live by. People living on the river ARGES are ARGESENI. Those living on river MURES are MURESANI. And those on OLT are OLTENI. No other nation around Romania or in Europe has this custom. But the INDIANS had their name derived from INDUS and EGYPTIANS from EGYPTUS, which was the vernacular name of the Nile. The later name of the river came from a certain king named NILUS.

Indus ultimately derives from a word meaning “river”, rather than the name of a particular river. These comparisons are interesting but do not relate to the issue of the origin of the Romanian language.

Past that point, your piece goes into a bit of a decline. You have found several little threads but together they don’t add up to significant evidence. You could probably do similar tricks for any language family.

The word AMURG which was RA-MURG or RA-MERGE means “dawn” as well, but it refers to the first light, before seeing the sun. The English E-MERGE can be easily seen in this A-MURG or A-MERGE and the German MORGEN or the English MORNING origin is revealed.

The descent of the English “emerge” from the Latin “mergere” meaning “to sink” is well documented and uncontroversial.

I don’t think that, if you sat down and looked at all the evidence neutrally, you would arrive at a conclusion other than that Romanian is descended from Latin.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 09:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I couldn’t make sense of the link. It just took me to a generic talk page.

Maybe this would be a better place to start?

Thanks! That’s the link.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 03:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I do understand perfectly what one goes thru when new unbelievable things are presented. Aristarchus of Samos was never believed when the heliocentric understanding came about

FMD ... that’s hilarious.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 05:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Welcome to this site, raven alb j.  Your English does you credit - many native English speakers could not do as well. 

“Crackpot” is a harsh word –it usually shows up at some point when the polemics are already overheated, and civil discourse has long since flown out of the window. I believe Professor Virchow used such a word (or its German equivalent) when publicly lambasting Pasteur’s germ theory. Speaking for myself, I prefer to save it for the fellow who tells me, in a hoarse whisper, that the mayonnaise in his refrigerator was curdled last night by the aliens from the Horsehead Nebula who live in his toolshed.
I don’t agree that raven alb j is a crackpot. He tells us that he is entirely self-taught – which means that he has not been trained in scientific method (a conclusion amply confirmed by his posts so far, which are interesting, but very, very far from methodical); He esteems himself as a highly original thinker, and as a maverick who expects to come in for heavy criticism. Look at that username:  to me, it looks like a mixture of Romanian and English words having the sense of “a white member of the family Corvidaceae” – a traditional figure of speech, used to signify “an outcast”.  Oddball – oh yes, indeed.  Crackpot – no.
As for the Romanian language - the area inhabited by speakers of present-day Romanian has been trampled incessantly by one conqueror after another, ever since the time of Trajan nearly 2000 years ago. Trajan overthrew and subjected a thriving (“Dacian”) kingdom of whom little is now known. A hundred years later the Romans were out of there, to be followed by a succession of invaders, all kinds of barbarians, Slavs, Byzantines, Austrians, Turks, Germans, Russians, you name it. Romanian is called a Romance language, but it has a huge assortment of non-Latin words left behind by successive conquerors --- and a considerable number of words whose origin may antedate the Roman conquest.  There are at least as many opinions about Romanian words as there are linguists arguing about them (check out “Dacian language” in Wikipedia, for instance).
Raven alb j, you have come to all sorts of conclusions about the Romanian language without paying enough attention to what other people have discovered.  This is not scientific. There are other people out there, as smart as you, who (despite your rash claim to be the “first ever”) were there a long time before you. Find out what other people have said, before coming to your own conclusions. You owe that to them, and to yourself.
By the way – Pergamum wasn’t a “Thracian kingdom”. It was a Greek city-state in Asia Minor.

La revedere - a phrase derived, if i mistake not, from Latin.....

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