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Posted: 22 February 2013 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Come to think of it, surely papyrus was a bit readee.

No, no, OP Tipping, not papyrus --- it was your old friend Cane-yo. He admits it at the end of Act 1, in his famous high-pitched laughing act: “Readee Paglaccio”

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Posted: 22 February 2013 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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In Macbeth, Act 3, Scene 5, there’s a famous example of role reversal, where the hectee bullies the witches

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Posted: 22 February 2013 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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The heck it is!

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Posted: 22 February 2013 11:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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So where do we get the word “jakes” from?

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Posted: 23 February 2013 12:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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It’s older than I thought, according to OED:

Etymology:  Origin unascertained; it has been suggested to be from the proper name Jaques, Jakes; or < Jakke, ‘Jack’, quasi Jakkes, ‘Jack’s’.
(‘Gakehouse’ in 1438 Tintinhull Church-warden’s Accts. (Som. Rec. Soc.) p. 179, is an editorial misreading of ‘Bakehouse’.)
(Show Less)

1.

Thesaurus »

a. A privy.

153.  in H. Ellis Orig. Lett. Eng. Hist. (1846) 3rd Ser. III. 84 The Iaques was very well doon.

1538 Inv. in J. W. Clark Barnwell Introd. 24 The jakes of the dorter.

1549 J. Bale in J. Leland Laboryouse Journey Pref. sig. B j, A great nombre of them whych purchased those superstycyouse mansyons, reserued of those Lybrarie bokes, some to serue theyr iakes, some to scoure theyr candlestyckes.

1552 R. Huloet Abcedarium Anglico Latinum, Siege, iacques, bogard, or draught, latrina.

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Posted: 23 February 2013 04:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Dr T, The heck it is! 

Surely you meant ‘hex,’ Dr T? 

And in the Macbeth context, Lionello, the hectee would have been better described as a ‘hextease.’

Now I see who is the Hecatease!

[ Edited: 23 February 2013 06:16 AM by Skibberoo ]
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Posted: 23 February 2013 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Here’s what OED has to say about the -ee suffix:

Used in technical terms of English law, was orig. an adaptation of the -é of certain Anglo-Norman pa. pples., which were used as ns. The existence in legal Anglo-Norman of pairs of correlative words like apelour appellor n., apelé appellee n., seems to have led in the first place to the invention of words in -ee parallel to those agent-nouns in -or which had been adapted in legal use from Anglo-Norman; and subsequently the terminations -or and -ee were freely added to English vb.-stems to form ns., those in -or denoting the agent, and those in -ee the passive party, in such transactions as are the object of legislative provision. The derivatives in -ee, however, unlike the Anglo-Norman participial ns. after which they were modelled, have not usually a grammatically passive sense, but denote the ‘indirect object’ of the vbs. from which they are derived. Thus vendee is the person to whom a sale is made, indorsee the person in whose favour a draft, etc. is indorsed, lessee the person to whom property is let. With still greater departure from the original function of the suffix, payee denotes the person who is entitled to be paid, whether he be actually paid or not. In a few cases the suffix has been appended, not to a verb-stem in English or Anglo-Norman, but to a Latin ppl. stem etymologically related to an English n., as in legatee, a person to whom a legacy has been bequeathed.

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Posted: 23 February 2013 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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The -ee suffix is used for the objects of the base verb if the verb is transitive or the subject if the verb is intransitive. 

I run (intransitive). I am a runnee.
I listen (intransitive). I am a listenee.
I sleep (intransitive). I am a sleepee.

I don’t think so.  Not as a general rule.

[ Edited: 23 February 2013 01:18 PM by Dr. Techie ]
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Posted: 23 February 2013 10:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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1552 R. Huloet Abcedarium Anglico Latinum, Siege, iacques, bogard, or draught, latrina.

this is a very eye-catching entry, because it gives a 16th century reference for one of the synonyms of “jakes” as “bogard”. This suggests a connection with a common rightpondian slang word for a jakes - “bog” or “bogs”, which I always thought was a modern slang term. No on-line dictionary accessible to me gives an etymology for “bog - a latrine”. Does the OED say anything?

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Posted: 23 February 2013 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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It does indeed, and the chain seems a little circular.

bog, n.4 A latrina > bog-house, n. A privy, house of office > boggard, n.2 A privy > bog, v.3 To exonerate the bowels; also trans. to defile with excrement.

I love those old terms - in future, if asked, I shall say I am going to the house of office to exonerate my bowels!

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Posted: 23 February 2013 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Thank you, aldi, for the elucidation (and for the laugh)

Does anyone remember the second most constipated man in the Bible?

It was Og, King of Bashan, who required a Bee to make him Bog.

[ Edited: 23 February 2013 01:06 PM by lionello ]
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Posted: 23 February 2013 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Dr. Techie - 23 February 2013 09:42 AM

The -ee suffix is used for the objects of the base verb if the verb is transitive or the subject if the verb is intransitive. 

I run (intransitive). I am a runnee.
I listen (intransitive). I am a listenee.
I sleep (intransitive). I am a sleepee.

I don’t think so.  Not as a general rule.

Different paradigm.  Those are English verbs.  But I still might have things whacked.  Attend is a transitive verb but one who does the attending is an attendee not an attendor.

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Posted: 23 February 2013 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Exonerating your bowels… Same as letting them off?

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Posted: 25 February 2013 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Incidentally, the etymology of mentor is quite interesting; it comes from a 1699 novel, Les Aventures de Télémaque, which was extraordinarily popular throughout the eighteenth century.  I wrote about it here.

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Posted: 25 February 2013 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Thanks, lh—Fénélon was just a name for me, too.That was an interesting excursion into an etymological byway. And I enjoyed your coterie’s response to it, as well.

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