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hot dog
Posted: 26 April 2013 08:10 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Seems to me that some Americans pronounce “hot dog” so that the two vowels are about the same (roughly [ä]), whereas others pronounce the ‘o’ in dog considerably further back than the ‘o’ in hot.

This speaker is in the latter category:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAn0PBjhwW4

Do you agree?

If so, is this a regional thing?

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Posted: 27 April 2013 03:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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That’s how I’d pronounce it, /hɑːt dɔːg/.  You seem to be saying the alternate pronunciation would be /hɑːt dɑːg/ but I might more expect /hɔːt dɔːg/.

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Posted: 27 April 2013 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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So Faldage, do you pronounce those words in that way separately? (ie when not saying hot dog)

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Posted: 27 April 2013 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Both words have the same vowel pronunciation for me.

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Posted: 27 April 2013 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Huh, no hot-dog merger here.  They aren’t merged either in general or in the specific construction “hot dog.” Hot, cot, and caught are merged, but none of them merge with dog (dog, though, has the same vowel sound as frog, cog and bog).  I began to wonder if I was imagining things and if the consonant endings were making me imagine that the vowels were different when they really weren’t, but I was able to come up with some non-g-ending words that have the same vowel as “dog” in my idiolect ("all" and “saw"), and some non-t-ending words that have the same vowel as “hot” ("odd" and “waffle").

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Posted: 27 April 2013 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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“hot dog.” Hot, cot, and caught are merged

Caught is the odd one in that list for me. Caught’s vowel sound rhymes with dog for me (US upper Midwest)

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Posted: 27 April 2013 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Same for me as for Oeco (unsurprising: I spent most of my adult life in the upper Midwest). The narrator’s pronunciation of “hot dog” in OPT’s video sounds bog-standard to me.

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Posted: 27 April 2013 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Yes, I pronounce hot and dog separately the same way I do when they are together, /hɑːt/ and /dɔːg/, respectively.  Aldi, when you pronounce the two vowels the same is it /hɑːt dɑːg/ or /hɔːt dɔːg/?

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Posted: 27 April 2013 06:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Hot, cot, and caught are merged, but none of them merge with dog

Well that is very interesting and kind of what I was getting at! Seems there are a few categories.

Edit: there were multiple copies of the quote

[ Edited: 28 April 2013 04:32 AM by OP Tipping ]
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Posted: 28 April 2013 02:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Whoa! here in SE England/London hot and dog have the same vowel, as do cot and frog, but caught is different and has the same vowel as the first syllables of water and daughter, none of which are quite the same of the YouTube speaker’s “dawg” - more like the Cockney vowels in this famous ad.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 03:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Zythophile - 28 April 2013 02:16 AM

Whoa! here in SE England/London hot and dog have the same vowel, as do cot and frog, but caught is different and has the same vowel as the first syllables of water and daughter, none of which are quite the same of the YouTube speaker’s “dawg” - more like the Cockney vowels in this famous ad.

OK, I think I’ve got the caught vowel down. (Love the advert, BTW, with it’s echoing of the rain in Spain.) I’m still in the dark as to what your pronunciation of hot, cot, dog and frog is.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 04:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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As in SE England, in Australia the vowels in hot, cot, dog, frog are identical, and separately those in caught, water, daughter are identical.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Faldage - 28 April 2013 03:35 AM

Zythophile - 28 April 2013 02:16 AM
Whoa! here in SE England/London hot and dog have the same vowel, as do cot and frog, but caught is different and has the same vowel as the first syllables of water and daughter, none of which are quite the same of the YouTube speaker’s “dawg” - more like the Cockney vowels in this famous ad.

OK, I think I’ve got the caught vowel down. (Love the advert, BTW, with it’s echoing of the rain in Spain.) I’m still in the dark as to what your pronunciation of hot, cot, dog and frog is.

The girl in the ad says Gosh at one point. That’s exactly the same vowel pronunciation as in hot, cot, dog, etc (at least in London and the SE of England).

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Posted: 28 April 2013 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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This IPA chart gives a good comparison of vocalic phonemes of the major regional varieties of English.

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Posted: 30 April 2013 02:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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aldiboronti - 28 April 2013 08:14 AM


The girl in the ad says Gosh at one point. That’s exactly the same vowel pronunciation as in hot, cot, dog, etc (at least in London and the SE of England).

Indeed. Ironically, an upper-class BrE pronunciation of “gosh” was, a few decades ago, more likely to be using a vowel closer to ɔː, ie “gawsh”, and that change is one of the most noticeable alterations in RP in the past 60 years or so. The orphan/often merger that is made so much fun of it Gilbert and Sullivan’s Pirates of Penzance is no more. Not that RP ever said /dɔːg/ - if you were an RP speaker you were more likely to talk about your hounds, anyway, calling then “hayinds”. (Note - attempt at a joke there.)

[ Edited: 30 April 2013 02:12 AM by Zythophile ]
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Posted: 30 April 2013 05:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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is IPA chart gives a good comparison of vocalic phonemes of the major regional varieties of English.

Unfortunately it only gives one version for the USA, whereas my main question is about a variation _within_ the USA.

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