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Neanderthals May Have Shared Speech And Language With Modern Humans
Posted: 19 July 2013 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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although Pääbo’s work started with mitochondrial DNA (as work on fossil DNA almost always does, because it is more plentiful than nuclear DNA), in recent years his group and others have moved on to nuclear DNA, and the virtually the entire Neandertal genome has been sequenced.

That’s pretty exciting stuff. I had listened to his 2012 Ottawa Conference talk a few days ago and I knew there was a large gap in my understanding. That’s a big chunk of it. I’ll have to go back and review it. Thanks, Doc.

[ Edited: 19 July 2013 09:56 AM by Iron Pyrite ]
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Posted: 19 July 2013 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Thanks, Dr T et al.

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Posted: 22 July 2013 07:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I wonder what they talked about

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Posted: 22 July 2013 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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The weather.

The new neighbors and the adverse effect they would have on the neighborhood.

Kids these days and how their slang would destroy the language.

By the way, the latest issue of New Scientist has an article that reveals that not only has it been possible to sequence the Neandertal (and Denisovan) genomes, but researchers have actually been able to study the patterns of gene methylation (a chemical modification which regulates gene expression), which I find quite amazing.  Unfortunately, we have no brain tissue from Neandertals or Denisovans (or even Cro-Magnons or other H. sap. sap. from that era) to analyze DNA from, so we’re really stuck with studying the methylation patterns of bone DNA.

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Posted: 22 July 2013 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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[Partially pipped by Dr. T.]

Food, sex, and weather, I’m guessing.  But who knows…

Grog: Krog, look at female chewing deer meat! 
Krog: Yes, she total HSSILF.
Grog: Too bad she not neander-chaser.
Krog:  Yes.  So, think it rain tomorrow?

Sorry...........

[ Edited: 22 July 2013 08:23 AM by Svinyard118 ]
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Posted: 22 July 2013 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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And now, as if Neanderthalers weren’t enough, we’ve got Denisovans.

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Posted: 23 July 2013 07:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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” Kids these days and how their slang would destroy the language. “

ROFL, nice.

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Posted: 30 July 2013 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I remember reading an account in the ‘90s of how a camel and a llama had successfully got it on despite being isolated from each other for about a million years (due to Alfred Wegener) and that the union was blessed with issue. I was sceptical but this thread prompted me to check it:
http://metro.co.uk/2008/04/06/joy-for-world-s-first-camel-and-llama-cross-71797/

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Posted: 31 July 2013 01:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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This is the article that prompted the thread. (I don’t think anyone has linked to the article itself, only news reports of the article. My apologies if someone has.)

It seems to be a thorough and well-reasoned argument. I don’t see any holes or problems with it. It is, however, speculative. It seems to be consistent with what we know, but that doesn’t mean that it’s right.

In then end, the article supports the “we just don’t know how or when language developed” hypothesis.

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Posted: 31 July 2013 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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All this talk of llamas reminded me of an old letter to Verbatim describing the probable confusion of a sculptor over the two meanings of llama in Spanish and his commission. Swift googling shows the correspondent was dead right:

In Spanish, the word “llama” (properly pronounced yä-m?, or “ya-ma,” not lä-m?) can mean three things. It is the verb “to call.” So como se llama, or “how do you call/say that” is a common and very useful phrase for those of us learning Spanish. You say “como se llama” and point to something, and you learn what that thing is called. Then there is the animal, which is, along with its close relative the alpaca, one of the two South American camelids. We are all familiar with them. But llama is also the word for flame, or fire. There is a brand of matches called “llamas,” which plays on this double-meaning of the word by showing a llama (animal) on the front, instead of a llama (flame). We see something similar here but in this case it was no joke…

Here.

It’s lucky he never did a statue of Bugger Welch.

(There are other South American camelids. Vicunas. alpacas and the lesser-known (to me) guacanos, all sharing a common ancestor as with neanderthals, chimps and humans. It really does my head in when creationists repeatedly say “But if we are descended from monkeys how come they still exist?")

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Posted: 31 July 2013 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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the two meanings of llama in Spanish

It’s three meanings of llama, venomousbede, not two.  And the other camelid is a guanaco, not a guacano.

[munches delightedly on juicy nit]

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Posted: 31 July 2013 11:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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[munches delightedly on juicy nit]

Lionello, thanks for this morning’s literal LOL.

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Posted: 01 August 2013 03:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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You’re very welcome

;-)

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Posted: 01 August 2013 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Perhaps VB’s point was that while “llama” has three meanings in Spanish, only two of them are nouns, and a sculptor who was asked to sculp a “llama” would presumably infer that a noun sense of llama was intended?  (Although, one could create a sculpture that expresses a verb as an abstraction, so I guess one can’t rule out the verb as a sculpting candidate.)

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Posted: 01 August 2013 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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so I guess one can’t rule out the verb as a sculpting candidate.

Wrong, Svinyard118 (a valiant forlorn hope, nevertheless). 

“To call” is llamar. “A call” is llamadaLlama can be either the second person singular imperative form ("call!") of the verb, or it can be the third person singular of the present indicative tense ("he/she calls"). The sculptor could only have understood llama as “a call”, if he/she had a very imperfect knowledge of Spanish. If, on the other hand, he/she were a little hard of hearing (or if the commission had been issued in writing, by a poor hand at spelling), the sculptor could conceivably have come up with a statue of a Tibetan holy man.

[continues munching happily, murmuring “What a super day for nits!"]

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