Surgery
Posted: 04 January 2015 06:50 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Here in this scepter’d isle when ill we pay a visit to our local GP (General Practitioner) at his/her surgery. Would it be so in the US? I recall that Robert Young used to play Marcus Welby, MD, presumably Medicinae Doctor. Would that be the equivalent? I’m paying a visit to my MD? At his surgery? Practice?

Sorry, doctors on the brain at present, finding more and more sympathy with iatrophobes.

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Posted: 04 January 2015 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Nope, we say office.  Surgery is what you go into when you get operated on (hopefully in a well-equipped hospital).  I would find the UK usage disorienting.

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Posted: 04 January 2015 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Another difference is the degree MD itself. In the UK this is purely a research degree, and the vast majority of practising doctors and surgeons don’t have it; indeed. most of them hold no qualification at all with the word ‘Doctor’ in it. I work in medical education, and the Deputy Dean of my organisation used to introduce one of the Associate Deans, a nurse who had a PhD in some aspect of nursing, as ‘the only genuine doctor in this department’ - all the others being general practitioners.

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Posted: 04 January 2015 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Interesting.  Is there a standard academic degree necessary to practice medicine, and if so what is it called?

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Posted: 05 January 2015 02:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Wikipedia offers:

Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery, or in Latin: Medicinae Baccalaureus, Baccalaureus Chirurgiae (abbreviated in various ways, viz. MBBS or MBChB, MB BS, MB BChir (Cantab), BM BCh (Oxon), MB BCh, MB ChB, BM BS, BM, BMed etc.), are the two first professional undergraduate degrees awarded upon graduation from medical school in medicine and surgery by universities in various countries that follow the tradition of the United Kingdom. The naming suggests that they are two separate degrees; however, in practice, they are usually treated as one and awarded together. In countries that follow the tradition of the United States, the degree is awarded as M.D., which is a professional doctorate degree.

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Posted: 05 January 2015 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Is the training different?

In the US, a prospective doctor applies to medical school following or in the last year of the bachelor’s degree program. Medical school is an additional four years of postgraduate study and clinical training. Then they undergo a year of clinical training as an intern, after which they are licensed to practice on their own. (Licensing requirements vary by state, though.) And then many go on to a residency program for a specialty, lasting from three to eight years depending on the specialty. General practitioners typically don’t do a residency.

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Posted: 05 January 2015 04:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Skib’s wiki offering is correct. In the UK the Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery degree, (however labelled by their specific university) is the degree awarded by medical schools and entitles graduates to call themselves ‘Doctor X’. However, they cannot then simply go out and practise; they must then undergo two years of non-specialised foundation training, in which they work as doctors but under close supervision. If they pass that OK they can apply for a training programme in the speciality of their choice (including general practice, which these days is a speciality that has to be trained for like any other). It’s only after successfully completing this training, which lasts several years and includes passing the examination for membership of the relevant Royal College, that they are entitled to call themselves ‘a GP/a surgeon/a dermatologist’ and practise that speciality unsupervised (and new Fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons can joyfully throw into the shredder all their letterhead paper and business cards calling themselves ‘Dr X’ and order new supplies calling themselves ‘Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms X’.)

However, this only applies to relatively recently-qualified doctors. The requirement for formalised, defined and quality-assured specialist training after the original medical qualification system took a long time to be recognised: it only became mandatory for GPs, for example, in 1974. And the granting of licences to practice has been hugely streamlined in recent years; I used to have a GP (a very good GP she was too) who was a Licentiate of the Society of Apothecaries of London (LSA); the Apothecaries only finally gave up licensing doctors by this fine old 18th-century title in 2008.

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Posted: 05 January 2015 05:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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In addition to all of the good information above, we shouldn’t overlook the D.O. Licensed physicians in the U.S. may have either an M.D. or D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) degree.  The basic medical education is quite similar.

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Posted: 05 January 2015 06:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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In the U.S. we “go to the doctor” but we may very well see a Nurse Practitioner or a Physician Assistant if we’re just going for a case of the flu or we need an antibiotic.  These people along with doctors are called “healthcare professionals”.  Nurses are also healthcare professionals but they can’t write prescriptions and so they are not included when the TV commercial for the new wonder drug tells you to “see your healthcare professional”.

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Posted: 05 January 2015 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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cuchuflete - 05 January 2015 05:57 AM

In addition to all of the good information above, we shouldn’t overlook the D.O. Licensed physicians in the U.S. may have either an M.D. or D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) degree.  The basic medical education is quite similar.

Which is terrifying.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sciencebiz/2010/10/27/osteopaths-versus-doctors/

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Posted: 05 January 2015 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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kurwamac - 05 January 2015 12:28 PM

cuchuflete - 05 January 2015 05:57 AM
In addition to all of the good information above, we shouldn’t overlook the D.O. Licensed physicians in the U.S. may have either an M.D. or D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) degree.  The basic medical education is quite similar.

Which is terrifying.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sciencebiz/2010/10/27/osteopaths-versus-doctors/

My wife, an RN says, “if it quacks like a duck ... “ But she’s soooo “old school”.
She graduated from nursing school in 1968, so she (and I) should be forgiven for such an observation.
Love this line from the Forbes article:

The American Osteopathic Association claims that they are “a separate yet equal branch of American medical care.” (The AOA doesn’t realize the irony in claiming “separate yet equal,” a phrase used to defend the clearly inferior segregated schools in the South in the first part of the 20th century.)

If their ear is that “tin” that must suggest something about their medicine, it seems to me.

Still, my “Internist” (a relatively new “specialty” that seems to replace the term “General Practitioner") has DO’s in his “practice” (which seems to be the parallel term for the UK “surgery.")

NB: an “internist” (specialist in “internal medicine") can practice on their own or in a* hospital. If the latter, they are called “hospitalists” That seems new to me, but I see it in the hospitals that I visit as a clergy-person.

*in the US we use the article “a”. In the UK one doesn’t.

[ Edited: 05 January 2015 07:32 PM by Oecolampadius ]
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Posted: 06 January 2015 12:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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No, the omission of the article in the idiom ‘in hospital’ only applies to patients. If the doctor were practising medicine in hospital, he or she would be doing it from a sickbed, above and beyond the call of duty.

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Posted: 06 January 2015 02:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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The difference between a modern-day DO and an MD as a general practitioner does not seem “terrifying” to me. The education covers the same ground, and for routine treatment there probably isn’t much difference. Much of routine medicine does not require great sophistication on the part of the doctor, and the quality is more influenced by personality and experience than what school they went to. The woo associated with osteopathy is a worry, but then again many MDs in the US offer quack “alternative” cures in addition to real medicine, so again I don’t think there is a great difference in this regard.

(But then, the last time I saw a physician for a complaint was for a broken foot. I had the choice of going to an in-network* podiatrist to get the bone set or to pay more and go to the out-of-network orthopedic surgeon who is the team doctor for the Golden State Warriors. I opted for the latter, even though the podiatrist could probably have done just as good a job putting on the cast. So I can see the point of wanting the best doctor even for routine complaints. The orthopedic surgeon did, however, offer me the choice of a surgical option that would have reduced the time in cast from six weeks to three, but since I wasn’t a pro basketball player with millions of dollars per week on the line, he didn’t recommend that option for me.)

* “In network” is US medical insurance jargon. If your doctor is part of your insurance company’s network of physicians, who follow the guidelines the insurance company sets out, the cost to you is less. You pay a greater percentage of the bill if the doctor is “out of network.”

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Posted: 06 January 2015 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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The author of the Forbes article is not a physician.  He is entitled to his opinion.  His bio says that he is a Professor of Biomedical Engineering, Computer Science, and Biostatistics in the Institute of Genetic Medicine at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Medicine.  The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine has many pages of listings of faculty members who are D.O.s. See for yourself:  http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/profiles/results/search/
Search for D.O.

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Posted: 06 January 2015 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Yeah, I did research post-docs at two rather prestigious medical schools in Chicago (not quite as prestigious as Johns Hopkins, but still highly regarded) and there were D.O.’s on the faculty there, as well.

BTW, I find both M.D.’s and D.O.’s terrifying, since they are almost all former pre-meds.

[ Edited: 06 January 2015 10:17 AM by Dr. Techie ]
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