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Occasional ‘support’ with baseball rules and regs
Posted: 17 August 2015 07:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Not sure I understand that: out LBW in cricket is 1 out. Or 2 out. Whatever, out. Being awarded first base has something to do with not being got out in the balls available, n’est-ce pas?

Another way the batter can be awarded first base is by being hit by the pitched ball. So an LBW would mean that the batter was hit and would automatically go to first base. The object of the two games cannot compare. Our batters are not trying to defend something behind them, but rather trying to get the ball out in front of them in such a way that would result in getting on base(s).

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Posted: 17 August 2015 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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In baseball the batter is awarded first base after being hit by a pitch with a couple of exceptions. 
If he is hit by the pitch but it was in the strike zone, then it’s a strike.  This is similar, from what I’ve just looked up on the internet, to “out LBW” in cricket except that in baseball the batter is only charged with one strike.
If he is hit by the pitch but he swings at it, it’s a strike (this happened a couple of weeks ago in a NY Met-Miami Marlins game). 
If he is hit by the pitch but in the umpire’s opinion he did not try to avoid being hit, he is not awarded first base (could be a called strike or a ball).

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Posted: 17 August 2015 09:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Oecolampadius - 17 August 2015 06:52 AM

BlackGrey - 16 August 2015 05:45 PM
Aii, still here: pls explain, it was KC 2-0 v LA, then LA got a point cos the KC pitcher chucked the ball way down on the side of the plate. It wasn’t like there had already been 2 or more illegal balls I think… sorry for being thick.

Not sure what your asking. If the ball was thrown way down the side of the plate, it could be a “wild pitch” but that in itself would not result in a “point.” Points in BB are “runs” and something like the following (unlikely) scenario would have to take place. Man on first and third; wild pitch; man on first tries to take advantage of the wild pitch, catcher throws to second base in order “get” the runner out"\, ball is somehow fumbled at second, man on third runs home and is “safe.” Crossing home base safely is a “run” or, I suppose, a “point” but we don’t use that word.

This is unlikely because the catcher would have foreseen such a move and held his powder.

If by “point” you mean that the batter goes to first base, it might mean that the batter was hit by the wild pitched ball which always results in the batter taking first base.

Hope you don’t mind me jumping in here, but I just looked up this game on the MLB At Bat app on my phone.  The previous batter for the Angels hit a triple (or three-base hit) and was at third base when the KC pitcher threw the wild pitch, allowing the runner to reach home and score a run for LA.

The official term “wild pitch” refers to a pitch that can’t reasonably be caught by the catcher and which allows a runner to advance.  If no runner advances (or no runners are on base), then no matter how wild the pitch was, it’s not officially a wild pitch.  Wild Pitch has a cousin called Passed Ball, which is a pitch that should be caught by the catcher but isn’t, allowing a runner to advance.

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Posted: 17 August 2015 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Dave Wilton - 17 August 2015 03:35 AM

It’s three outs per inning in baseball. Once the third man is out, that half of the inning is over and the other team comes to bat. Each side has 27 outs in a game (3 x 9 innings).

Aaahh! That’s a whole new nugget for me, was not aware of that at all and sometimes puzzled by the amount of batters per inning. I guess the teams can select who is going in to bat right up to the moment of sending them in?

Dave Wilton - 17 August 2015 03:35 AM

Then there’s the graph of the bases. If it shows like a clover leaf of diamonds (left hand side white diamond, rhs dark diamond, middle top white diamond. then that means there is one guy on the first base?

Yes.

Again, many thanks for the confirmation.

Oecolampadius - 17 August 2015 06:52 AM

Not sure what your asking. If the ball was thrown way down the side of the plate, it could be a “wild pitch” but that in itself would not result in a “point.” Points in BB are “runs” and something like the following (unlikely) scenario would have to take place. Man on first and third; wild pitch; man on first tries to take advantage of the wild pitch, catcher throws to second base in order “get” the runner out"\, ball is somehow fumbled at second, man on third runs home and is “safe.” Crossing home base safely is a “run” or, I suppose, a “point” but we don’t use that word.

This is unlikely because the catcher would have foreseen such a move and held his powder.

If by “point” you mean that the batter goes to first base, it might mean that the batter was hit by the wild pitched ball which always results in the batter taking first base.

I think, on re-reading my own garbled post and your clear reply, that the answer is that there must have been someone on third base who ran in at the same time as the unholy events I mentioned were taking place. I just wasn’t aware of it - so many things to look at at once in the on-screen stat graphics! Thanks for your perseverance.

Oecolampadius - 17 August 2015 07:17 AM

Another way the batter can be awarded first base is by being hit by the pitched ball. So an LBW would mean that the batter was hit and would automatically go to first base. The object of the two games cannot compare. Our batters are not trying to defend something behind them, but rather trying to get the ball out in front of them in such a way that would result in getting on base(s).

jtab4994 - 17 August 2015 09:36 AM

In baseball the batter is awarded first base after being hit by a pitch with a couple of exceptions. 
If he is hit by the pitch but it was in the strike zone, then it’s a strike.  This is similar, from what I’ve just looked up on the internet, to “out LBW” in cricket except that in baseball the batter is only charged with one strike.
If he is hit by the pitch but he swings at it, it’s a strike (this happened a couple of weeks ago in a NY Met-Miami Marlins game). 
If he is hit by the pitch but in the umpire’s opinion he did not try to avoid being hit, he is not awarded first base (could be a called strike or a ball).

Thanks again to Oeco and now jtab for their posts. There is indeed no real comparison for LBW in BB as far as punishment goes. In cricket, it means the batsman is out, and you only get 10 ‘outs’ in a typical cricket innings.

Appreciate your point jtab re the batter getting hit in the strike zone. As you say, then the pitcher gets the sanction. Apart from that weird one you quote!! Dovetails nicely into my original question above.

Hope I’ll have some time to take in some more BB next weekend!

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Posted: 17 August 2015 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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The previous batter for the Angels hit a triple (or three-base hit) and was at third base when the KC pitcher threw the wild pitch, allowing the runner to reach home and score a run for LA.

Wow! That pitch had to be more than wild for the runner from 3rd to make it to home! Thanks, jtab!

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Posted: 17 August 2015 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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BlackGrey - 17 August 2015 10:10 AM

I guess the teams can select who is going in to bat right up to the moment of sending them in?

No.  There is a strict batting order that is decided before the game even begins.  If a batter bats out of order it can result in an automatic out.  The fielding team has to appeal the infraction after the play has ended and before the next pitch is thrown.  The exception to the batting order is that any team can put in what is called a pitch hitter.  The player who was substituted for is no longer in the game and cannot return to play.

As to the runner on third scoring on a wild pitch it is not that uncommon.  If the pitch gets completely away from the catcher the runner on third can attempt to score.  Generally the pitcher will come in to cover home hoping that the catcher will get to the ball quick enough and can throw it to him in time to tag the runner out.

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Posted: 17 August 2015 04:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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there must have been someone on third base

I Don’t Know.

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Posted: 18 August 2015 04:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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The exception to the batting order is that any team can put in what is called a pitch hitter.

That’s pinch hitter. (I normally don’t comment on typos, but this one is important, given that we’re on a language forum.

The player who was substituted for is no longer in the game and cannot return to play.

The same is true of any substitution. Sometimes when a batter reaches base a pinch runner will replace him, both on base and in the batting order. Similarly, pitchers who are replaced cannot return to play.

Pitchers can be an exception to the batting order rule. In the National League, pitchers bat like any other player. (Typically the pitcher will bat in ninth position as they are almost always the weakest batter and the ninth position comes to bat less often.) Pitchers will be replaced not only because their arms get tired in late innings, but also when there is a need to generate more runs—a pinch hitter will be substituted for the pitcher and then another pitcher will be substituted for the hitter when the team takes the field again.

But in the American League there is the designated hitter who bats in place of the pitcher. The DH does not take the field when the team is on defense; he only bats. If a DH takes the field in another player’s stead, the pitcher then bats in the place of the player who was replaced in the field. (Unless there is a double substitution; it gets complicated.)

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Posted: 18 August 2015 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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You should also be aware (in terms of baseball culture, not rules) that there is strong disagreement about the whole phenomenon of the designated hitter.  National League fans (like myself, a Mets fan) tend to deprecate it and think that forcing pitchers to hit is a valuable part of the game’s traditions.  American League fans (like my late father, an Angels fan) tend to think it’s stupid to force pitchers to hit (because they can’t) and the designated hitter adds excitement to the game.  Dad and I had many enjoyable go-arounds about this.

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Posted: 18 August 2015 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Dave Wilton - 18 August 2015 04:26 AM

The exception to the batting order is that any team can put in what is called a pitch hitter.

That’s pinch hitter. (I normally don’t comment on typos, but this one is important, given that we’re on a language forum.

It was more a brain fart than a typo but yeah, thanks Dave.

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Posted: 18 August 2015 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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I too grew up as a Mets fan, but switched allegiance to the AL Orioles when I moved to DC. However, I retained my dislike for the DH rule. My main reason is that not having it adds a layer of strategy in many games. In a close game, do you remove a pitcher who is doing well in the middle innings in order to get a hit? With the DH rule, pitcher substitution is solely due to how the well the pitcher is doing, there is never any decision between defense and offense.

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Posted: 18 August 2015 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Which brings up another interesting family divergence.  I grew up a Senators fan, following in Dad’s footsteps: he worked for the State Department, so when we were in the US we were in the DC area.  Now, the Senators were abysmal in the ‘50s when I was a kid, regularly getting beat up by the Yankees (leading to my lifelong hatred of that team), but when Harmon Killebrew came along in the late ‘50s (he became the regular third baseman in 1959) and then they traded the lumbering first baseman Roy Sievers for the fine catcher Earl Battey in 1960, things started looking really promising for the first time since the great pitcher Walter Johnson in the 1920s (I heard a lot about the Big Train growing up, since he was the only superstar the team ever had).  But the following year the team left DC and became the Minnesota Twins!  What to do?  To me it was obvious: it was still the same team, and they were finally getting good.  You’d have to be nuts to switch allegiance to the new expansion Senators (or “Senators,” as I thought of them).  But that’s what Dad did!  His philosophy was root root root for the home team, and the new Senators were now his home team.  I may have been only ten, but I knew right from wrong, and I tried to convince him he was wrong, but he was as stubborn as I was and we parted ways, baseballically speaking.  I got my big thrill in ‘65 when my boys made it to the Series, only to lose in seven games to the damn Dodgers—we beat Koufax and Drysdale back to back and they still came back to win!  Ahem.  Yes, I’m still bitter.  (The Dodgers are the other team I hate.)

Anyway, when I moved to NYC in 1981 I hadn’t been following baseball for a decade or so and needed a local team to root for.  It obviously couldn’t be the Yankees, so I switched leagues and became a Mets fan, and they rewarded me (after a few hideous years for which Senators fandom had served as excellent preparation) by winning it all in ‘86.  I’ve been living off that memory ever since.  (And when Dad retired to Southern California, he stayed with the AL and became an Angels fan, which is a good thing; I don’t know if I could have borne his rooting for the Dodgers.)

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Posted: 28 August 2015 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Wow guys you rock n al that! So many little issues lightly buried under the surface blossoming into fully-fledged passionate admissions on this thread now!

I had no idea about these subltleties. I’ll be brutally frank and admit I did not know there were diverse/rival leagues in baseball (although should have suspected it from what I have picked up on American Football.

Tonight I have the luxury of catching an innings or two of Marlins v Nationals and I came in just as someone was completing a run thanks to another batter who had just hit it far enough to get two home from the bases.

This saddled me with my next query: I am still trying to get to grips with the dizzying array of stats offered on each view of the channel I am watching, and just in case I wasn’t dizzy enough, the stats from other contemporaneous games are also marching past at the bottom of the screen. OK, I dig.

But that one guy hitting the ball so two others could get home got me thinking about why and how this would affect the reporting of hitters’ stats. You know, .250 or .333 or whatever (sorry if making fool of myself) - how are all these odd in-between scores interpreted in the stats? I mean, a guy scores a home run, I can see that means 1.0000 if he did nothing else in his life. But how does getting home from someone else’s hit count in the calculation of the batter’s stats?

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Posted: 29 August 2015 03:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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There is a stat called RBI, for Runs Batted In. The guy that hit the ball far enough that two base runners could score gets 2 RBIs for his efforts.  Note that you don’t even have to hit the ball without getting put out to get an RBI.  If there is a runner on third and the batter hits the ball far enough into the outfield, even if it is caught on the fly, the runner on third can attempt to score and if he does so the batter gets an RBI.  The runner has to be touching third base after the ball is caught.  This whole thing is called a sacrifice fly or sac fly.

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Posted: 29 August 2015 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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The major stats are:

Offensive stats:

Batting average (BA or AVG): the percentage of times the batter makes a hit dived by the times at bat (instances where the batter was awarded a base because of four balls or an error and instances where the batter sacrificed--was called out but advanced the runner--are excluded from the count of “at bats"). At .300 batting average is considered very good. An average .400 is insanely great--the last man to achieve a .400 seasonal average was Ted Williams in 1941.

On-base percentage (OBP): percentage of times the batter gets on base (walks are counted here); simply put, the likelihood the batter will make it to base

Slugging percentage (SLG): total number of bases earned on hits divided by the instances at bat; a measure of the batter’s power

Runs batted in (RBI): count of runners that have scored because of the batter’s hits; a home run with one man on base counts as two RBIs, the runner and the batter score

Defensive stats:

Earned run average (ERA): runs scored against a pitcher multiplied by nine and then divided by the number of innings pitched; the average runs scored against a pitcher in a theoretical nine-inning game; for a starting pitcher, an ERA less than three is good

Fielding percentage: number of putouts and assists divided by the number of putouts, assists, and errors; the chance of successfully fielding the ball on any given play; fielding percentages above .900 are typical

There are lots of other stats and variations on these. For instance, ERA is frequently adjusted to take into account differences between the ballparks. The study of baseball statistics is known as sabermetrics, after SABR, the Society for American Baseball Research.

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