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Occasional ‘support’ with baseball rules and regs
Posted: 29 August 2015 05:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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But how does getting home from someone else’s hit count in the calculation of the batter’s stats?

That counts as a Run Scored (R) which is an important stat if the player is the kind of guy who’s known for getting a lot of hits and walks, or bases on balls (BB) and has speed (high OBP, in other words) but not a lot of power. 

Batting average (BA or AVG): the percentage of times the batter makes a hit dived by the times at bat (instances where the batter was awarded a base because of four balls or an error and instances where the batter sacrificed--was called out but advanced the runner--are excluded from the count of “at bats"). At .300 batting average is considered very good. An average .400 is insanely great--the last man to achieve a .400 seasonal average was Ted Williams in 1941.

The batter is actually charged with a time at bat when he reaches base on an error.  He’s not rewarded for a fielding mistake when he should’ve been out in the opinion of the official scorer.

Also, when you get into “park-adjusted stats” such as for ERA you’re getting into deep sabermetrics where only pros and real geeks live!

[ Edited: 29 August 2015 05:38 AM by jtab4994 ]
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Posted: 29 August 2015 04:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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jtab, Faldage and Dave - how many other ways can I say thanks? Heel veel dank, echt!

You make me aware of things I heard but was not yet aware of if you get my drift…

That ERA thing has already bugged the hell out of me, because I thought it meant ‘era’ as in career stats as opposed to season or game or whatever! Jeeeeez, glad I was saved from that pointless tangent. I even found myself inventing things for my mind to believe why I was interpreting it as ‘era=career’… when I stop and think now I’m impressed by the strength of my own completely erroneous presumptions.

Dave, thanks for answering with the needs of the inquirer in mind: that overview was just what I needed to fill out a few basic concepts and markers in the sabermetric universe. Even though my RP instincts urge me to spell that ‘sabremetrics’.

I leave you with my thanks and a wee test on cricket, just for fun like!

What are the prerequisites for being considered out leg before wicket (LBW) in cricket? I’ll accept internet-researched answers as long as they are accompanied by an explanation in your own words!

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Posted: 30 August 2015 03:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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My guess, before looking it up on Wikipedia, was that to be out LBW the batsman actually had to block the ball from hitting the wicket.  This would be a judgment call by the umpire not unlike the judgment call by the umpire in baseball on whether the batter attempted to get out of the way of the pitch and whether the pitch was in the strike zone.

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Posted: 30 August 2015 07:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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I have to admit I did look it up on Wikipedia when the subject of “out LBW” first came to my attention a week or so ago.  And so I agree with what Faldage says.

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Posted: 01 September 2015 01:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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BlackGrey - 28 August 2015 03:24 PM

Tonight I have the luxury of catching an innings or two of Marlins v Nationals and I came in just as someone was completing a run thanks to another batter who had just hit it far enough to get two home from the bases.

Note that in baseball innings is only used in the plural.  One would say “an inning or two”.

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Posted: 18 September 2015 03:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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@jtab4994 & @Faldage :

Thanks for the input, sorry for the late response, due to reasons! Re the reason I asked about the lbw thing - it now depends on an ‘umpirically’ series of events, any one of which may disqualify the lbw decision.

1. if the ball bounces, it has to pitch in the putative space encompassed by an oblong described by joining up the outer wicket posts with their opposites. Ie, the long oblong is that between the area of the wickets.

2. It has to ‘impact’ in the same putative line; so it hits the batsman’s body (not so much the leg, more not the bat) on a line you would expect it to hit the stumps.

3. It has to be proved by the Hawkeye (Test and international level) to be hitting the wickets by more than 50% accuracy. So if it only ‘glances’ the outside wicket or stump, it will be out if the umpire gave it ‘live’ as such, not out if the opposing side requested the challenge and even if it did only glance if the umpire originally said ‘out’.

There’s a couple a months thinkin’ for ya!

My real genuine question for tonight - hallowed day when I can catch a late night baseball game (though straining for the NFL as well!) - is what is it with a fly ball? The guy hits it but it counts as a strike - but not as the last strike? I’m confused!

Currently watching Toronto v Boston but it’d better be good otherwise NFL for an hour or so before sack-time.

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Posted: 18 September 2015 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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I understand baseball about as little as one can and still keep US citizenship, but I think you mean “foul ball”, not “fly ball”.  Yes, a foul ball counts as a strike but not as the third strike which would put the batter out.

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Posted: 19 September 2015 03:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Dr. Techie - 18 September 2015 04:18 PM

I understand baseball about as little as one can and still keep US citizenship, but I think you mean “foul ball”, not “fly ball”.  Yes, a foul ball counts as a strike but not as the third strike which would put the batter out.

Yes, foul ball.  But to add to the confusion caused by the third strike exception there is a phenomenon called “foul tip”. Basically a foul tip is a ball the has just been brushed by the bat and caught by the catcher without abnormal actions on his part.  Remember that the general rule is that a foul ball caught on the fly is an out and the batter is retired.  A foul tip deviates from this rule in that it is not an out but it also deviates from the rule about foul balls and third strikes.  A foul tip will count as a third strike.

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Posted: 19 September 2015 04:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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fly ball: a ball hit high in the air; a fly ball can be either foul or fair

line drive: a ball hit with a fast, low trajectory; the opposite of a fly ball

foul ball: a ball hit so that it travels outside the first or third base lines (i.e., outside the boundaries of the field); if the batter has less than two strikes against him, a foul ball is considered a strike; if a foul ball is caught before touching the ground, the batter is out

foul tip: a ball that strikes the bat but then travels straight into the catcher’s glove and is caught; a foul tip, despite the name, is a strike, but not a foul ball; a batter is not automatically out when he hits a foul tip, despite it being caught; a batter with two strikes who hits a foul tip is out

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Posted: 19 September 2015 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Man, am I ever glad I can ask these things in a ‘protected’ environment! I genuinely thought fly was anything outside the line of 1st and 3rd base, as Dave mentions above.

So again thanks for (a) grasping immediately my wrong usage of ‘fly’ and (b) supplying the correct term and - extensive - explanations. ‘Foul tip’ was what my mum used to call my room when I still stayed at home when I was young! But very interesting, the same (but not quite as serious) as being ‘caught behind’ by the wicketkeeper in cricket. The old allusions to the original shared game concept are all still there, shrouded in ever further apart-growing terminologies.

Just for the record, are there any other rules for what constitutes (or not) a successful third strike? And perhaps would not be so if they were second strikes? Do I even make sense? I hope you can read between the lines again for me, buena suerte.

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Posted: 19 September 2015 06:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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BlackGrey - 19 September 2015 04:13 PM


Just for the record, are there any other rules for what constitutes (or not) a successful third strike? And perhaps would not be so if they were second strikes? Do I even make sense? I hope you can read between the lines again for me, buena suerte.

One interesting thing about a third strike:  If the ball is not caught by the catcher on the fly the batter can attempt to run to first base.  Usually this does not happen unless the catcher totally misses the ball and it gets far enough away for the batter to actually make it to first before being thrown out.  It is still recorded as a strike out on the pitcher’s stats but the batter is not out if he makes it to first base safely.  I have seen this happen for what would have been the third out of the inning and the batting team scored several runs after.

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Posted: 20 September 2015 03:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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What constitutes a strike:

1) The ball passes through the strike zone and the batter does not swing
2) The batter swings and misses the ball
3) A foul tip
4) The batter refuses to enter the batter’s box (if he continues to refuse, there may be multiple strikes called)
5) A foul ball*

All of these, except #5, apply regardless of the number of strikes already called on the batter. #5 does not apply if there are already two strikes on the batter. That’s the only difference in the definition of a strike as it applies to the third strike.

One interesting thing about a third strike:  If the ball is not caught by the catcher on the fly the batter can attempt to run to first base. [...] It is still recorded as a strike out on the pitcher’s stats but the batter is not out if he makes it to first base safely.

But only if first base is unoccupied or it is occupied with two out.

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Posted: 21 September 2015 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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I’m interested in the use of a “K” (or backward K) in scoring a strike in Baseball. I could google it, but it would be more fun to discuss it here. My instinct is, again without googling, that it comes from the German “Kaput”.

Have at it.

Edit: got the answer right away in Wiki but it might still be illuminating for BlackGrey here.

[ Edited: 21 September 2015 08:49 AM by Oecolampadius ]
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Posted: 21 September 2015 10:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Wikipedia says Henry Chadwick invented baseball scoring in the 1850’s, using a K to denote a strikeout because “K” is the dominant letter in the word, and S was already used for a Sacrifice.  They don’t seem to say when the backwards K was first used for a non-swinging strikeout, though.

One more thing about foul balls and strikes:  When the batter already has 2 strikes and he bunts the next pitch foul, it’s ruled a strikeout.  That rule is intended to stop batters from trying to tire out the pitcher by simply bunting pitch after pitch foul.

And this may be obvious, but the batter is out if a foul fly ball or a foul pop-up is caught before it hits the ground.  Up until 1883 a foul ball caught on one bounce was also an out.  At my high school in 1976, during our Bicentennial Days celebration a demonstration baseball game was played using the 1876 rules, and the first baseman on one team did indeed let a foul pop-up bounce before catching it, and the batter was out!

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Posted: 21 September 2015 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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The Dickson Baseball Dictionary backs up the Wikipedia explanation.

(Baseball history is one of those areas I would expect Wikipedia to be ruthlessly accurate. There are so many evidence-based amateurs in baseball history and stats out there that any factual misstep would be quickly corrected.)

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