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Object of desire
Posted: 04 November 2007 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]
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There are a couple of JSTOR volumes that contain the phrase, one from 1894, I think. You have to be a member to gain access. I wonder if it had a particular meaning in the original, presumably French, language. More recently it seems to have taken on a pretty obvious sexual/romantic use, and there’s an film/art project going on where it seems to refer to a kind of Shangrila quest.

The Meaning of “Motive”
J. H. Muirhead, J. S. Mackenzie, S. Alexander, David G. Ritchie
International Journal of Ethics, Vol. 4, No. 2 (Jan., 1894), pp. 229-238
This article consists of 10 page(s).

[ Edited: 04 November 2007 03:22 PM by Iron Pyrite ]
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Posted: 04 November 2007 06:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Seems to be a category of Platonic and Epicurean philosophy and Freudian psychology.  Here’s the French wikipedia on the subject.  I have only a dim understanding of French.  But the Luis Buñuel film was just wonderful.

L’objet d’un besoin procède donc d’une fonction que je vise à travers lui, alors que l’objet du désir représente quelque chose d’autre que lui-même (si je désire un verre de Riesling, c’est parce que je suis un petit alsacien et que cela me rappelle ma jeunesse). Il y a donc dans le désir une dimension symbolique de représentativité de l’objet visé, c’est en cela qu’il est donc proprement humain. Alors que dans le besoin, il s’agit d’avoir l’objet pour sa fonctionnalité, dans le désir, l’objet est visé parce qu’il faut être cet objet. C’est cette distinction qui peut être faite entre la réclame et la publicité : alors que les réclames étaient censée susciter le besoin de posséder tel ou tel objet pour sa fonctionnalité (on vante les mérites d’une voiture parce qu’elle est plus performante), la publicité montre des personnes idéales auxquelles il s’agit de s’identifier à travers la consommation (il s’agit d’acheter une belle bagnole pour être un riche et bel homme incarnant la réussite sociale).

I prefer a Riesling (an object of desire which represents more than a white wine) because I’m part Alsatian and it reminds me of my youth.  er summinladat.

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Posted: 05 November 2007 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Oeco, I can testify you don’t need to be part Alsatian to desire an Alsatian Riesling. It’s total joy.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 12:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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oddly enough I prefer a pinot gris, but rareley known to refuse or complain at a riesling or gewurtztraminer…

Can’t find any particularly special meaning for “l’objet du désir “ other than to differentiate between practical needs and those that satisfy on a more emotional level ( as per Oeco’s post).

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Posted: 06 November 2007 06:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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For me a Spat Burgunder, partly because it is so rarely found here in left pondia and the ambiance of my first experience of it in Berlin.  i’m told it’s from a Pinot grape, so must be some sort of Pinot Noir.

Hobbes also uses “object of desire” as in “the good is the name we give to the object of our desire.” Leviathan, I think.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Yes, Spätburgunder is just the German name for (local varieties of) pinot noir, which is my favorite grape (ah, for the days when I could afford Burgundy!).  As for riesling, I love it but prefer Moselles to the (generally drier) Alsatian varieties.

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Posted: 09 November 2007 08:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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languagehat - 06 November 2007 08:54 AM

Yes, Spätburgunder is just the German name for (local varieties of) pinot noir, which is my favorite grape (ah, for the days when I could afford Burgundy!).  As for riesling, I love it but prefer Moselles to the (generally drier) Alsatian varieties.

I’m heading out tonight to find such a variety.  Maybe buy some nice candles as well. My good wife will be pleased.

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Posted: 09 November 2007 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Enjoy it!

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Posted: 10 November 2007 04:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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If you had means as slight as mine,
You would’nt speak that way of wine.

Pinot, zinfandel, chardonnay,
Merlot, shiraz and cabernet ----
All names to take one’s breath away!

But not for me, those vintage wines
On which the well-heeled gourmet dines.

On my plain board there stands, instead,
A flask of nameless white or red ---

“Vino de mesa”. “Vin ordinaire” ---
Made in a winery somewhere,
From grapes that grew beneath a sun
That shone on each and every one,
Whether they had a name or not ---
Varietal differences forgot.

And when that wine has done its part
To warm the cockles of my heart,
Deep in my inmost self i know
That nobody in all creation,
No king, no lord, no CEO,
Can claim to be above my station.

So friends, when next you sit to dine
And drink a glass of glorious wine
(whate’er its year, whate’er its name),
Raise up your glasses in acclaim
Of Bacchus, god of drinking-hall,
the greatest democrat of all!

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Posted: 21 November 2007 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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lionello - 10 November 2007 04:45 AM

If you had means as slight as mine,
You would’nt speak that way of wine.

Pinot, zinfandel, chardonnay,
Merlot, shiraz and cabernet ----
All names to take one’s breath away!

But not for me, those vintage wines
On which the well-heeled gourmet dines.

On my plain board there stands, instead,
A flask of nameless white or red ---

“Vino de mesa”. “Vin ordinaire” ---
Made in a winery somewhere,
From grapes that grew beneath a sun
That shone on each and every one,
Whether they had a name or not ---
Varietal differences forgot.

And when that wine has done its part
To warm the cockles of my heart,
Deep in my inmost self i know
That nobody in all creation,
No king, no lord, no CEO,
Can claim to be above my station.

So friends, when next you sit to dine
And drink a glass of glorious wine
(whate’er its year, whate’er its name),
Raise up your glasses in acclaim
Of Bacchus, god of drinking-hall,
the greatest democrat of all!

This, dear friend is a work of art.  Thank you.

Tomorrow is the US holiday of Thanksgiving which features Turkey.  This Slate article suggests a Pinot Noir from the state of Oregon (of all places).  Today, I got a Willamette Valley Pinot Noir for $7.95 versus this article’s suggestion of $65.  I’ll let you know tomorrow.

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Posted: 22 November 2007 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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l’hayim to Oecolampadius, and to all others who celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow.

Ed.: and to all others who celebrate anything, any day of the year

;-)

[ Edited: 22 November 2007 01:01 PM by lionello ]
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Posted: 22 November 2007 02:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Over the years I’ve tried a lot of wines with turkey and have settled on rosé and zinfandel; we had a bottle of each and dinner went very well.  Happy Thanksgiving to the Americans in the audience!

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Posted: 23 November 2007 02:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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I’m a pinot noir guy, myself. I prefer the smoother ones as I age.

Oh, and by the way, the object of my desire has centered more on my wife as I get older, too. Wife gets better with age.

[ Edited: 23 November 2007 02:16 AM by Eyehawk ]
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Posted: 23 November 2007 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I’m a pinot noir guy too, I just find that strong flavors like those found on a Thanksgiving table tend to drown it out.

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Posted: 23 November 2007 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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lionello - 10 November 2007 04:45 AM

If you had means as slight as mine,
You would’nt speak that way of wine.

Pinot, zinfandel, chardonnay,
Merlot, shiraz and cabernet ----
All names to take one’s breath away!

But not for me, those vintage wines
On which the well-heeled gourmet dines.

On my plain board there stands, instead,
A flask of nameless white or red ---

“Vino de mesa”. “Vin ordinaire” ---
Made in a winery somewhere,
From grapes that grew beneath a sun
That shone on each and every one,
Whether they had a name or not ---
Varietal differences forgot.

And when that wine has done its part
To warm the cockles of my heart,
Deep in my inmost self i know
That nobody in all creation,
No king, no lord, no CEO,
Can claim to be above my station.

So friends, when next you sit to dine
And drink a glass of glorious wine
(whate’er its year, whate’er its name),
Raise up your glasses in acclaim
Of Bacchus, god of drinking-hall,
the greatest democrat of all!

The soul of Anacreon lives on in mellifluous and honey-tongued Lionello!  Most enjoyable.

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Posted: 23 November 2007 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Wife gets better with age.

Gallina vecchia fa bon brodo*

Ripeness is all.

(King Lear, Act V, Scene II)

* Italian proverb: “An old hen makes good soup”

;-)

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