schneid
Posted: 05 October 2017 05:26 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Interesting piece by Merrill Perlman about the word schneid, which we don’t seem to have discussed:

Merriam-Webster ... just recently added “schneid” with the definition of “a losing streak (as in sports).” A “losing streak” can encompass a slump and winlessness, so all bases are covered. The dictionary says it’s chiefly US slang, and traces its first use to 1969.

But “schneid” has been around a lot longer than that. If you’re shut out in gin rummy, for example, that’s called a “schneid.” We’ve been getting “schneided” in gin rummy for at least 40 years.

In its original English appearance, “schneider” was used in a three-handed card game called “skat,” a bidding and contract game similar to bridge. The Oxford English Dictionary traces it to 1886, when someone with only 30 points had a “schneider.” In a little mind trick, if you had 91 points, you won a double game, called a “schneider,” because the opponents had a “schneider,” 30 points or fewer.

“Schneider,” of course, is also a proper name, and its German origins offer a clue on how it came to mean a bad score. Literally translated as “tailor,” the word “schneider” brought with it, M-W says, “stereotypes of the tailor as poor, miserable, timid, or the like, as reflected in such expressions as (armer) Schneider ‘poor wretch’ (literally, ‘poor tailor’), er ist ein Schneider ‘he looks like death warmed-over’ (literally, ‘he is a tailor’), and the like.” Luckily for sports, it seems to have lost the stereotype but kept the connotation of “loser.”

The statement that it “has been around a lot longer than that” is oddly followed by “We’ve been getting ‘schneided’ in gin rummy for at least 40 years,” since forty years ago is 1977, hardly a lot longer ago than 1969.

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Posted: 05 October 2017 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Interesting and quite new to me. This bit put a broad grin on my face.

er ist ein Schneider ‘he looks like death warmed-over’ (literally, ‘he is a tailor’

One of my friends is a retired tailor, can’t wait to pass that one on. For an English-speaker the word snide comes to mind which intriguingly in its first 19th century incarnation meant inferior, worthless.  Snide is of unknown origin, a cant word. One hesitates to suggest a connection.

BTW that stuff about winning a schneider, so called because your opponents had a schneider seems a perfect example of lucus a non lucendo if I’m understanding it aright.

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Posted: 05 October 2017 06:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I recall being schneidered by my grandmother in gin rummy. That recollection dates to c.1977.

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Posted: 05 October 2017 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I remember hearing this term while at a horse racing track years ago:

It’s time to get OFF THE SCHNEID.

What is OFF THE SCHNEID?  It’s a figure of speech that means to end a losing streak — to stop a long run of negatives with a positive.

To understand how one gets OFF THE SCHNEID, one has to understand what “the schneid” is. Here is a definition from the smart folks at http://www.word-detective.com.

To be “on the schneid” means to be on a losing streak, racking up a series of losing, and especially scoreless, games. “Schneid” is actually short for “schneider,” a term originally used in the card game of gin, meaning to prevent an opponent from scoring any points. “Schneider” entered the vocabulary of gin from German (probably via Yiddish), where it means “tailor.” Apparently the original sense was that if you were “schneidered” in gin you were “cut” (as if by a tailor) from contention in the game. “Schneider” first appeared in the literature of card-playing about 1886, but the shortened form “schneid” used in other sports is probably of fairly reent vintage.

From this site: https://offtheschneid.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/ots/

[ Edited: 05 October 2017 07:07 AM by Eyehawk ]
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Posted: 05 October 2017 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Actually, we discussed it a several times at the old site. (And in searching, I found that the archives have changed host again!  Apparently Yuku got bought by Tapatalk.  And hey! Their search function works!)

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/wordoriginsorg/on-off-the-snide-t9972.html

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/wordoriginsorg/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8067&p=80422&hilit=schneid#p80422

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/wordoriginsorg/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6553&p=65805&hilit=schneid#p65805

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/wordoriginsorg/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1427&p=1084&hilit=schneid#p1084

[ Edited: 05 October 2017 08:31 AM by Dr. Techie ]
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Posted: 06 October 2017 12:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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The German verb schneiden, and its Yiddish counterpart shnaydn, literally mean ‘to cut’. So a Schneider in skat or gin rummy doesn’t necessarily even involve any tailoring metaphor; it may have been quite straightforwardly something that cut you.

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Posted: 06 October 2017 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Actually, we discussed it a several times at the old site.

Sigh.  But it’s high time we discussed it again!

(And in searching, I found that the archives have changed host again!  Apparently Yuku got bought by Tapatalk.  And hey! Their search function works!)

Hey, it was worth posting this just to learn that!

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Posted: 07 October 2017 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Amen to that. A tip of the hat to Tapatalk for preserving the archives.

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Posted: 07 October 2017 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Erik- (betritt das Bierhaus) Buenos tardes caballeros.

Andere- Buenos tardes.

Erik- Estas calor, no?

Kunde1- Si.

Erik- Una cerveza por favor!

Erik- (trinkt)Deutsches Bier?

Barmann-Klaro.

Kunde1- Ja is Bitburger. Schmeckt gut, ne?

Erik- Das Beste.  Was hat sie nach Argeninen verschlagen?

Kunde1- Ach, Das Klima! Ich bin Schweinebauer

Kunde2- Ich bin Schneider. Seit meiner Kindheit.Mein Vater hat die Schönsten. Anzüge Düsseldorf gemacht.

Erik- Meine Eltern kamen aus Düsseldorf!

Kunde2- Wie ist der Name?

Erik- Sie hatten keine Namen. Ihr Name wurde ihnen weggenommen.

Erik- (hebt sein Glas) Schweinebauer und Schneider.

(Sie trinken)

(Kunde1 enthüllt einen Dolch)

(Erik packt den Dolch)

Erik- (liest die Inschrift) “Blut und Ehre”. Ja was von beiden würden sie gerne zuerst verlieren?

Kunde1- Wir hatten unsere Befehle.

Erik- Also Blut.

I loved this scene. Schneider means tailor, usually, but literally it means cutter, and Erik seems to be offering insult to the customer, referring to his violent past. It made me look up the origin of tailor, and wouldn’t you know it, this also derives from words meaning “cutter”.

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Posted: 07 October 2017 05:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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What is the scene from?

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Posted: 07 October 2017 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Sigh.  But it’s high time we discussed it again!

I hope that “Sigh.” isn’t suggesting that I shouldn’t point out these old threads.

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Posted: 07 October 2017 06:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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It’s from X-men: First Class.

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Posted: 07 October 2017 06:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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...and because there are always new, interested folks who drop by and don’t know what the heck has been discussed over the years. Rehashing is a lot of what happens here. Repetition is not a bad thing.

(continuation of Dr. Techie’s post)

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Posted: 08 October 2017 05:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I hope that “Sigh.” isn’t suggesting that I shouldn’t point out these old threads.

No, no, it was a “sigh” at my own forgetfulness!  Sorry, I expected that to be clearer than apparently it was.

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