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Posted: 13 November 2007 09:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Yes, please! --- In vicuña, if possible.... and could you perhaps throw in a nasoprotector (medium size)?

Ed,: and if you’re feeling particularly benevolent—I’d like it in a burgundy shade (to match the skin underneath)

[ Edited: 13 November 2007 09:34 PM by lionello ]
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Posted: 13 November 2007 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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a nasoprotector ... I’d like it in a burgundy shade

Easily arranged, even if it’s not delivered that way.  A good snort of pinot noir while wearing the nose cosy and… voila!

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Posted: 13 November 2007 10:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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doctor ex machina --- as usual!

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Posted: 14 November 2007 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Re: Supplying the good Ms Doolittle with a nice warm cloak.

I just figured that, since Lionello didn’t get it first time around (on page one of this thread), a little repetition wouldn’t hurt.

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Posted: 14 November 2007 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Your explanation was the best so far, Faldage.

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Posted: 14 November 2007 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Dave Wilton - 13 November 2007 07:08 AM

I could try to extricate myself by saying that I was talking about “military,” not “naval,” but that’s not exactly true. I wasn’t thinking about the navy at all, actually, but I think my point still holds.
...
If anything, 1802 and the founding of the US Military Academy at West Point starts the continuous tradition of US military forces. This is roughly contemporaneous with the founding of the navy.

I would direct your attention to the first paragraph of the following link to the Naval Historical Center.
http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/triv04-3.htm

It is in line with what I was taught, and what I experienced during my 11 years in the U.S. Navy.  If I am wrong I should be forgiven, since there is ample evidence to support my assertion that many American military traditions (in particular with respect to language) were inherited from the British.

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Posted: 14 November 2007 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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I’m picturing young Andy Hardy (Mickey Rooney), Betsy Booth (Judy Garland), and their cohorts wandering down to the docks one day in 1794....
Andy : Hey, kids! Let’s put on a Navy!
Betsy : Gee, Andy… I’ve never been on a boat before.  Should I read some books about other Navies or talk to some old sailors?
Andy : Gosh, no, Betsy!  We wouldn’t want our Navy to be corrupted by any of those old British naval traditions.  We’ll just make it up from scratch as we go along....

(^_^)

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Posted: 14 November 2007 01:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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I would direct your attention to the first paragraph of the following link to the Naval Historical Center.
http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/triv04-3.htm

Somewhat surprisingly, official military histories are notoriously bad at getting the facts right. Sites like this make a lot of errors and tend to propagate myths that have sprung up over the years.

This site is good case in point. Sailor does not come from an Old English word saylor. Rather, it doesn’t appear until the 15th century. The verb does come from the Old English, but it’s siglan. I suspect the naval historian who wrote the text for this web site confused the letter yogh (g) for a y and a verb for a noun.

Also, I would dispute the degree to which the training of colonial militias by the British influence the Continental Army. Relatively few officers or men of the Continental Army had any real military experience. Washington got the job because he was just about the only colonial who had significant military experience. It was the mercenary drillmasters brought in from Europe and the French who whipped the Continental Army into shape.

Benedict Arnold, arguably the greatest colonial field commander of the war, had no military experience at all. Ditto for George Rogers Clark and Anthony Wayne. Nathaniel Greene had a year of self-taught militia experience before the Revolution. Henry Knox was the only American commander, other than Washington, who had significant militia experience prior to the war. Of all the colonial generals, the one with the most experience was Horatio Gates, who had retired from the British Army as a major. But he was also probably the worst of the American generals. Arnold essentially mutinied at Saratoga and won the decisive battle by disobeying Gates’s orders. Gates also lost the battle of Camden, his only other significant action.

The navy would be a bit different. As a highly technical (for the era) profession, most sailors and officers in the Continental Navy and the early US Navy and Coast Guard would have been experienced sailors in various merchant fleets and in the Royal Navy. You can make a stronger case for Royal Navy tradition influencing the US Navy than you can for the army.

But all this is pretty irrelevant to the original question. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that blue bark is anything close to 230 years old.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Dave Wilton - 14 November 2007 01:43 PM

But all this is pretty irrelevant to the original question. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that blue bark is anything close to 230 years old.

Quite true.  It was just a simple question about the possible origin of a term which I was wholly unfamiliar.  Apparently it was a stupid question.  I will try to refrain from asking such questions in the future.

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Posted: 16 November 2007 06:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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I wouldn’t call it a “stupid” question. Once you’ve been studying slang and jargon for a while, you get a feel for what types of terms are apt to appear in various eras. This is one that just screams post-WWII.

Such gut reactions need to be checked against the lexical evidence, because they are not always correct--sometimes you an anachronistic sounding word isn’t anachronistic at all, but they hold true in most cases.

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